The politics of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses

Should Scotland be an independent country?

Poll ended at Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:10 pm

Aye
10
63%
Naw
6
38%
don't give a shit. do what you want.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 16
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Post #151 by Dog » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:27 pm

Chezz is so sexy when he speaks with his HR voice.
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Post #152 by clawfirst » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:37 pm

NyQuil wrote:This is why people are always away on French training.

It is career limiting in the public service to not reach a certain standard in French and English.


So what you are saying is ,we must kill off the French as they are an even greater tax burden than the average proper English man believed...
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Post #153 by PPJ » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:45 pm

Lord Chezz wrote:One of two reasons:

-The position was incorrectly classified as bilingual; or more likely
-The position was required to manage individuals either: within bilingual regions, or those where bilingual obligations exist.

So if Mr. Executive has a group that delivers national services to the public or provices services in a community where there is an instance of francophone service more than 5% of the time, he must be bilingual to be able to manage grievances (grievors are able to do so in the language of their choice), provide performance reviews (employees can do so in the language of choice) and provide strategic advice to clients (external/internal) or stakeholders in the language of their choice.

Goes way beyond the physical location of the position, Joe.


Apparantly the instances of French language services being required was zero. Somewhere in Buttfuck Alberta.
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Post #154 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:46 pm

Psycho Papa Joe wrote:Apparantly the instances of French language services being required was zero.


It's more to do with your subordinates potentially preferring French than service delivery to the public IIRC.

clawfirst wrote:So what you are saying is ,we must kill off the French as they are an even greater tax burden than the average proper English man believed...


The requirement for bilingualism among employees has expanded substantially within the federal government within the last two decades.

There is a cost associated with the ongoing training and certification of language proficiencies.

In addition, some have argued that over-emphasis on bilingualism has made other job qualifications irrelevant which can have an impact on the pool of applicants to public service positions (particularly those outside of NB, Quebec and Ontario).

On the plus side, many of the meetings I attend are fully bilingual. Speakers converse in whatever language they prefer.

Ultimately, it's something to keep in mind when thinking about education of your kids.
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Post #155 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:02 pm

[CENTER] :getzyawnf: [/CENTER]
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Post #156 by PPJ » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:02 pm

Fucking federal bureaucratic nightmare apologists.
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Post #157 by Mufasa » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:03 pm

NyQuil wrote:I think some were also recognizing that identity politics were being misused by the leading separatist party as a distraction from issues such as the economy and the sustainability of social services.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/why-young-sovereignists-are-rethinking-the-pqs-french-obsession/


McLeans could be the least reliable source when it comes to Quebec. Patriquin is actually an assimilated francophone. But the article is pretty interesting, i don't care much about protecting the french language in the end, in the, the following day of independance we could nuke bill 101 i wouldn't care much, when i hear baby-boomeurs screaming Quebec en français i cringe, the only part of bill 101 that i'll keep is immigrants who don't have english as a mother tongue must attend french school, wich was almost non-existent before bill 101.

I'm only talking about demographics here.

It's hard to imagine the language dying out when the number of speakers keeps increasing. Between 1981 and 2011 (the 30 year window that Mumu speaks of), the population whose mother tongue is French grew 16%. The population with French as the language spoken most often at home or as first official language spoken increased by 17.6% and 21.3%, respectively.

Languages in danger of extinction are not actively gaining speakers.

I think the threat has been overblown. The proportional weight may change, but the language is not going to die.


Are you implying that french speakers aren't making babies? For sure the numbers are increasing, but the amount of french speakers raising their children in english is massive in bi-cultural households, wait till the baby-boomers disapear. The demographic weight of Francophones out of Quebec is very important for them, it's a lot of trouble to even have education in french in most regions that aren't Ottawa or New-Brunswick, le nombre dicte tout. And if young Quebecers are leaving the whole fight behind them, french-tards from the rest of the country should follow.

As it is, I'm not averse to measures to protect the language, however, I see a slippery slope towards outright endorsement of a particular ethnic group over another.


I don't like the relativism that often come from federalists argument, that both culture needs to be treated equaly, for sure it needs to be, that's why there is Bill 101 or else it would be a lost battle.

When the self-appointed protector party of the French language in Quebec decides to endorse Bernard Drainville's vision of Quebec values, I start to wonder.


PQ is real bullshit, nobody likes them anymore.


Everyone's demographics are changing. Welcome to reality.

Multiculturalism or melting pot - you're not going to be able to freeze a culture in stasis with Western birthrates.

That goes for every part of Canada, not just Quebec.

I'm certainly beginning to understand the Mumu narrative which is essentially that he wants to build a time machine and live in the 1970s.


For the metling pot thing i'm all for it, you can have any culture you want as long as french is preserved in Quebec, don't really care about the rest of Canada. And the demographic changes will not affect the english language by the way, immigration just means more english speakers in a generation or two.

How come i want to go back to the 70'? I just said the present demographic must be preserved in Quebec, that also means the english part. So what i really need is a time machine that'll take me back to this morning, when i posted that.

You are talking like if making french people the smallest minority possible and making Canada a english country wasn't a project, "it just happened" wich is completly the contrary, the very basis of our corrupted electoral system is to make sure french becomes/remain a minority.
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Post #158 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:04 pm

I could talk federal government HR policy all day and enjoy it.

This is what Ottawa does to people.
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Post #159 by PPJ » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:17 pm

Lord Chezz wrote:So I assume you're an external consultant and get paid twice as much as I do.


Are you planning on doing the double dip some day Chezz? Collect your pension and then be hired as an external consultant? Apparantly it's all the rage in the federal gov't these days.
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Post #160 by AD » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:19 pm

NyQuil wrote:AD?
































[SIZE="1"]*That's for the wife comment. An anglophone never forgets and never forgives.[/size]


:stare:

But I apologized. Sincerely!

Even though I was repped for that joke.

:gary:
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Post #161 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:23 pm

[QUOTe=Lord Chezz]Though some big changes are coming to the HR world in the feds in the next few years. I might be compelled to take the buy out and start that consultancy a little earlier.
[/QUOTE]

Lord Chezz wrote:So I assume you're an external consultant and get paid twice as much as I do.


If you ever want to take the plunge, let me know.

We used to have a fairly robust HR practice. A lot of it was classification and job description writing though.

Still, there's always a need to understand HR policy and assess proposed organizational changes in terms of their impact on positions etc.
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Post #162 by AD » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:26 pm

So.. NyQ.. what do you do now?
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Post #163 by PPJ » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:29 pm

Given my propensity for off the colour humor, people like NyQuil make my job a living hell. Fuck you assholes and your sensitivity training. :madfawk:
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Post #164 by PPJ » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:31 pm

Lord Chezz wrote:Even for us swamp dwellers in New Brunswick?


Time to move to Ottawa and make the big bucks Chezz. Enough with New Buttfuckswick
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Post #165 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:40 pm

[CENTER]Image[/CENTER]
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Post #166 by Craig » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:50 pm

They contract out job description writing? That's not something they just scribble down 5 minutes before the posting goes up because it's so obviously meaningless?
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Post #167 by Murphy » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:53 pm

Mustafa wrote:Not really, I just wanted to expose NyQuil narrative, and the usual bilingual Canada hypocrisy.

The real fight would be to preserve Quebec demographic proportions. As long as Québec' demographics stay the way they are il n'y a pas péril en la demeure.

We could achieve indépendance in 50 years for all I care.


Yeah, but you talk about the proportion. Alot of that is due to the fact that immigration is changing the proportion.
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Post #168 by Dog » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:10 pm

Mustafa wrote:McLeans could be the least reliable source when it comes to Quebec. Patriquin is actually an assimilated francophone. But the article is pretty interesting, i don't care much about protecting the french language in the end, in the, the following day of independance we could nuke bill 101 i wouldn't care much, when i hear baby-boomeurs screaming Quebec en français i cringe, the only part of bill 101 that i'll keep is immigrants who don't have english as a mother tongue must attend french school, wich was almost non-existent before bill 101.

I'm only talking about demographics here.



Are you implying that french speakers aren't making babies? For sure the numbers are increasing, but the amount of french speakers raising their children in english is massive in bi-cultural households, wait till the baby-boomers disapear. The demographic weight of Francophones out of Quebec is very important for them, it's a lot of trouble to even have education in french in most regions that aren't Ottawa or New-Brunswick, le nombre dicte tout. And if young Quebecers are leaving the whole fight behind them, french-tards from the rest of the country should follow.



I don't like the relativism that often come from federalists argument, that both culture needs to be treated equaly, for sure it needs to be, that's why there is Bill 101 or else it would be a lost battle.



PQ is real bullshit, nobody likes them anymore.




For the metling pot thing i'm all for it, you can have any culture you want as long as french is preserved in Quebec, don't really care about the rest of Canada. And the demographic changes will not affect the english language by the way, immigration just means more english speakers in a generation or two.

How come i want to go back to the 70'? I just said the present demographic must be preserved in Quebec, that also means the english part. So what i really need is a time machine that'll take me back to this morning, when i posted that.

You are talking like if making french people the smallest minority possible and making Canada a english country wasn't a project, "it just happened" wich is completly the contrary, the very basis of our corrupted electoral system is to make sure french becomes/remain a minority.


AD, could you translate this into understandable?
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Post #169 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:49 pm

AD wrote:So.. NyQ.. what do you do now?


Mostly meetings and calls today.

Things are starting to heat up in anticipation for the September sprint when everyone simultaneously realizes how much has to be done by Christmas.

Lord Chezz wrote:Even for us swamp dwellers in New Brunswick?


It's a little trickier to be outside of the NCR but we have an economist in Halifax that we work with on occasion.

In general though, if you're in the regions, you have to rely on other types of work from time to time or have a pretty decent pension to augment the federal contract work.

Ultimately, there are federal institutions all across the country and you can develop pretty solid working relationships with some of the satellite offices if you can get your foot in the door.

Lord Chezz wrote:Most managers do not have the time or skill to do this effectively so they contract out to people like Nyquil and his minions.


It's also often related to significant organizational transformation - like a recent contract associated with integration of Passport Canada into Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

All of a sudden you have a new group of employees who may be doing similar work to the employees in an organization they've moved to, and yet they have different job classifications and are being compensated differently or their activities aren't aligned.

That raises the possibilities for grievances and appeals to the union etc. as LC outlined.

There can be a requirement to rewrite 50 or 60 job descriptions within a very small period of time.
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Post #170 by Craig » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:29 pm

You're all parasites.
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Post #171 by PPJ » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:31 pm

Got a knife that'll do a job on a parasite Craig?
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Post #172 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:31 pm

Craig wrote:You're all parasites.


My primary skill is to be a babel fish between scientists, regulators and decision-makers.

So your statement as far as I'm concerned is correct.
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Post #173 by Craig » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:31 pm

No. :why:
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Post #174 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:53 pm

Mustafa wrote:The only part of bill 101 that i'll keep is immigrants who don't have english as a mother tongue must attend french school, wich was almost non-existent before bill 101.


I actually have no issue with this.

Mustafa wrote:The demographic weight of Francophones out of Quebec is very important for them, it's a lot of trouble to even have education in french in most regions that aren't Ottawa or New-Brunswick, le nombre dicte tout. And if young Quebecers are leaving the whole fight behind them, french-tards from the rest of the country should follow.


There is still a lot of effort underway to protect French language rights across the country. Mrs_NyQuil's firm is involved in quite a lot of it. From ensuring French representation on hospital boards in New Brunswick to Michel Thibodeau, I've had a front-row seat. I don't see people giving up.

Mustafa wrote:I don't like the relativism that often come from federalists argument, that both culture needs to be treated equally, for sure it needs to be, that's why there is Bill 101 or else it would be a lost battle.


Personally, I don't really believe the Two Solitudes are as relevant today and the "two nations" concept to Canada is a bit of an anachronism.

The West is emerging as its own cultural, political and economic power with a contentious relationship with Ontario at best.

Their values are quite different from central English-Canadians, as expressed in their electoral results and political/social positions.

Regional demarcations are more relevant today than the old bi-cultural model that worked when you had Upper Canada and Lower Canada and a smattering of Maritimers.

Mustafa wrote:PQ is real bullshit, nobody likes them anymore.


Well that's a relief.

I've always been a bit leery of parties that rely on strong ideological foundations because they have this inherent inability to adapt.

Then again, I'm from Ottawa, and I'm leery of anything that's a little too loud and obnoxious.

Mustafa wrote:You are talking like if making french people the smallest minority possible and making Canada a english country wasn't a project, "it just happened" which is completly the contrary, the very basis of our corrupted electoral system is to make sure french becomes/remain a minority.


I thought it was to reinforce regional divisions to the detriment of a clear national policy.
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Post #175 by NyQuil » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:05 pm

Psycho Papa Joe wrote:Given my propensity for off the colour humor, people like NyQuil make my job a living hell. Fuck you assholes and your sensitivity training. :madfawk:


Technically, my job is to make people think they came up with a solution that I have already laid out for them.

I make people feel really smart.
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Post #176 by RTWAP » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:33 am

Mustafa wrote:First that's Ottawa, right next to Quebec, secondo less than 60% of Francophones speak french at home in Ontario, that's a statistical fact, also the french population of Ontario is growing less quickly than the english population, it has been like that for over a century now, right now the growing speed is about half of the english growing speed, and that's not including the high rates of assimilation for each generation. So i don't see how your lil' story doesn't fit my narrative.

But yeah this story of the French population doing great in Canada has been told for quite a while now, i'd take time to look at the demographics since the confederation, or even from 30 years ago when i was born, and tell me that everything is mighty fine. That, my friend, doesn't fit your narrative.


I wonder how much of the english population growth is attributed to immigration?

And to be clear, I don't think the French population is "doing great". I'm just not convinced that people need to be forced to use it. It seems like giving up. Like saying "French sucks. Nobody would use it if we didn't force them to." There are more reasons to operate in French in Quebec than anywhere else. Certainly more than in Ottawa. The concern about "losing" French seems like an overblown attempt to find an external threat that will tie everyone together. Increasing internal cohesion and external alienation are good things if you want to separate from those nasty anglos.
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Post #177 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:09 am

Mkbét and Mufasa are the two most important people in my life. : )

[CENTER]death to all French[/CENTER]
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Post #178 by mayoradamwest » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:15 am

Gilles Proulx was invited onto Montreal’s Radio X last Friday after writing a column in the Journal de Montréal on the Israel-Hamas conflict. “No need to be an expert to say that Israel could make Washington, Paris or Ottawa bend, knowing in advance that its diaspora, well established, will make any government submit!” he wrote in the Journal.

Speaking to Radio X, he elaborated on his thinking, suggesting Jews historically provoke hate and persecution. “The diaspora is scattered around the world, where they take economic control, provoke the hatred of local nations, whether it is in Spain, for example, with the Inquisition, or again later with Adolf Hitler,” he said.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/08/13/quebec-jewish-community-disturbed-by-lack-of-outrage-over-columnists-anti-semitic-radio-rant/
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Post #179 by PPJ » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:18 am

In other words, according to Proulx, Jews are that hot chick in the mini skirt, who complains after getting gang raped.
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Post #180 by AD » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:19 am

This falls into the Zionist narrative. Gilles Proulx is an agent of internation zionism.

:paranoid:
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Post #181 by IcE ColD » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:28 am

Psycho Papa Joe wrote:In other words, according to Proulx, Jews are that hot chick in the mini skirt, who complains after getting gang raped.


Coincidentally, I think he already had such a rant on that topic a couple of years ago, so this totally fits the bill.
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Post #182 by Dog » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:10 am

The bloc is dead.
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Post #183 by AD » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:32 am

Which, imo, is a good thing for the separatists and not necessarily good for the federalists no matter what the tone in the media.

Separatism may be on the decline as well, but the bloc is helping the decline not fighting against it. in that sense, Mario Beaulieu is right in doing what he's doing and Gilles Duceppe's strategy of constructive dialogue was not. (if you're a separatist of course).
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Post #184 by Ismellofhockey » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:14 am

Dog wrote:AD, could you translate this into understandable?


I'll help since AD seems to have neglected his duties...

Ahem... I may be a little rusty, but I believe he is saying: "Shut the fuck up and come back when you know something, anything."
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Post #185 by FH2002 » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:47 pm

Harper weighs in on the independence movement, generally speaking of course.

Skip to 12:40.
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Post #186 by Germz » Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:09 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Scotland is tipping


Unlikely.
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Post #187 by Dog » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:43 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29077213

Pretty much agree with their take, although there isn't much new there.
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Post #188 by Macbeth » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:29 pm

[CENTER]Image
[font="Comic Sans MS"]Pertinent, always.[/font][/CENTER]
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Post #189 by jester » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:43 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:If this was Quebec could you ever imagine Harper doing this?


Or saying this?


http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/world/scotland-referendum-prime-minister-david-cameron-warns-vote-is-forever-1.2766415


What is fascinating is how much this is about a division between "The City" and everyone else in Britain ... that is a longstanding reality in Britain, but really has come to foreground on this issue, which has left the Tories with almost nothing they can say.
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Post #190 by AD » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:16 pm

I read an interesting piece on the norther english towns and their desire to be associated with a future Scotland rather than a London-centric England.
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Post #191 by Dog » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:18 pm

But London is a great city and British towns are boorish shit holes! Don't they understand??!

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