Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses
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Post #501 by Dog » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:35 am

embracedbias wrote:The "as if" doesn't make sense. They are trying to "save" them because the "they" are feminists and the "them" are women.


"They've" narrowed their group to black women, if I understood correctly.

Anywho, we can slice and dice into almost infinately narrower minority groups. Which is why I don't get the point of this discussion. Not that narrow groups shouldn't advance their specific cause, but that it is futile to denounce the larger group for not representing all their specificities.
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Post #502 by Dog » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:48 am

Big#D wrote:Analogy time:
I'm assuming this is something like a person working on a crossword puzzle and then someone else walks in the room, looks over their shoulder and says the answer to 23 down when all the person wanted to do is finish the puzzle by themselves.


What does "by themselves" mean here?

No celebraties? No whites?

I'd think black celebraties may have more in common with white celebraties than with poor black women (who themselves may have more in common with poor white women than black celebraties).

You slice for wealth? Education? Social class? Just colour? Just gender?
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Post #503 by Dog » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:57 am

Big#D wrote: the ones who aren't are likely not too concerned about their lack of privilege because they are spending most of their time just trying to survive.


To be fair, they are also likely watching Springer.
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Post #504 by Dog » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:14 am

Maybe it's more an actual puzzle than a crossword puzzle and each individual is a piece of the puzzle itself.

















Wait, what are we talking about again?
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Post #505 by Roughneck » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:37 pm

Aren't most people put in prison or deported against their will?
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Post #506 by Roughneck » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:25 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Watch the video of Kristof doing that. He's ostensibly "saving" them. They go to prison, cops get more money from taxpayers worried about the women.


Yeah I get that, I'm just poking fun at the redundant phrasing that implies there are significant subsets of people who are hoping to be sent to prison or deported but just can't seem to make it work.
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Post #507 by RTWAP » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:19 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Sometimes I think some intersectional feminists go too far with all the hatin of white dudes. Those thoughts just got buried in some corner with the stats behind Mike Peluso's pro-set rookie card

RTWAP, I can't believe you actually pulled an #alllivesmatter right before pulling an MLK whitewash to wipe your ass with what are essentially MLK's own beliefs

But by all means, DID ANYBODY BOTHER TO THINK OF THE WHITES FEELINGS


You're using nothing but buzzwords and labels. Please provide some actual content in your response next time.

Big#D wrote:but they don't want to be saved by some priviledged white woman. they want to overcome their disadvantages themselves. and they think themselves strong enough to do so.


That is definitely understandable. If they feel like some white feminist is being boorish while ostensibly "supporting" them then by all means, try to get that person to understand how their "support" is perceived. But if it's just non-constructive criticism and victim-status claiming then why bother?

Big#D wrote:Analogy time:
I'm assuming this is something like a person working on a crossword puzzle and then someone else walks in the room, looks over their shoulder and says the answer to 23 down when all the person wanted to do is finish the puzzle by themselves.


Good analogy, but aside from the worst possible examples, the "help" provided by white feminists is more like offering a dictionary to someone complaining about how tough the crossword is. Take it, or don't, but either way it shouldn't generate disrespect or insults in response.

dempsey_k wrote:Nothing anybody says can convince RTWAP that he's billowing white male tears of aggrievement and a supporter of structural sexism and racism. There is no point in discussing it.


You conclude this from no interaction with me whatsoever? You're just being an insulting dick. Either you're doing it for kicks, in which case I really should put you on ignore because life's too short to deal with shits like you. Or you don't know you're completely failing to engage in reasonable and open dialogue, in which case why should I care what you think, and again ignore seems like a good option.

dempsey_k wrote:What you're saying is that people should ignore Laura Bush and Jay Leno's wife campaigning trying to give freedims to Muslim women, or that Sheryl Sandberg reaching a compromise with the boys club so that elite wealthy women can have it good at the expense of all other women should be given a pass, or that Nick Kristof going on midnight raids embedded with police to put prostitutes in prison or deport them against their will mostly so local Police departments can get more tax dollars is cool and should also be given a pass.


Woah. An actual substantive response.

Those all seem like positions and actions that should be criticized. But the original article didn't talk much about that, and in my response I acknowledged that well-intentioned but ignorant people exist and should be informed of their ignorance. If after doing so they still persist then they're making an active choice to ignore those they are "helping". That's not just ignorance at that point.
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Post #508 by RTWAP » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:21 pm

dempsey_k wrote:I don't go for anything substantive with you because I know it's pointless, it's just how the brain works. If you ever stop feeling threatened by equality it'll be on your own emotional logic, not any argument here. , but it's still fun to point out that you walk into cliches other supporters of structural racism and sexism know better than to fail to conceal.


Ad hominem attacks? I didn't think you were that lame. You haven't engaged me on my observations or opinions. Which is too bad because I could probably learn something from you if you did. But whatever.
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Post #509 by Craig » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:52 pm

RTWAP wrote:Ad hominem attacks? I didn't think you were that lame. You haven't engaged me on my observations or opinions. Which is too bad because I could probably learn something from you if you did. But whatever.


Welcome to discussing politics with Dempsey. It's either this or him telling you to read a bunch of articles. The guy hasn't actually elaborated on an opinion since 2007.
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Post #510 by AD » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:11 am

For the record, I loved Full House.
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Post #511 by senate » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:59 am

AD wrote:For the record, I loved Full House.


Even knowing how Uncle Joey treated Alanis? Misogynist.
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Post #512 by AD » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:12 pm

I would forgive anything for that hair.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #513 by Captain Roy Bringus » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:00 pm

I had no idea Milo Yiannopoulos was a Sens fan.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #514 by Retarder S » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:18 pm

lol Society is so soft these days. This is why I'm a big advocate of having kids walk at least 5 miles to get to school. None of this transportation bullshit. The motor industry is at fault for such uptight butthole mentality.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #515 by RTWAP » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:45 am

Just had a thought about Gamergate.

It pisses me off that there are trolls out there who get their kicks making the internet an uncomfortable place for women. What I'd love to see is a browser plug-in called Sunlight that stops trolls in their tacks by hiding any comment, tweet, post, email from a known troll. The user would have a per-platform choice (e.g. youtube, twitter, email, etc.) to completely hide the content, or just replace it with a line saying 'Possible troll content - click here to unhide - click here to see content leading to troll designation'.

There would be a global list of reported trolls, and per-user lists of trolls. If a social media account is designated as a troll by a certain threshold (10? 20?) of individual users then it would be published as a known troll. There would be a review mechanism. The list of offending posts would be listed and available on a central service.

Reporting:

When reporting troll content the following steps would be taken:
1) Add the reported troll to the reporting user's personal list of trolls. There would be user settings (per platform) for whether to designate them as personal trolls this would be (1) Always (default) (2) Ask each time (3) Never.
2) Add the reported troll to the global list of possible trolls subject to validation. There would be user settings (per platform) for whether to report the content as trolling for possible global troll designation would be (1) Always (2) Ask each time (3) Never.
Note: Google is not a platform. It would be more granular than that. Google+ would be a platform, gmail would be a platform, youtube would be a platform.
Note: When content is private it may be advisable to inform the reporting user that the content they are reporting may be visible to everyone if a troll designation is made. But also to remind the user that the troll already has the content. Consider whether sharing it more widely makes you feel safer about the situation.
3) Gather validation data (certificate root for https: accessible platform, cert validation results, and browser reliability (page source/plug-ins/user scripting/tracert))
4) Report the platform, reported user ID (not username if possible), content, link to content, validation data, and reporting user to the central service
5) Validate by central service
- if publicly accessible web link then confirm content is currently as reported and note timestamp
-- Note: Images embedded in content can be changed after first load, or different images can be served up depending on IP. Go with whatever the reporting user's browser retrieved.
- if private and platform supports https: then confirm cert root and chain, and run browser reliability check
- if private and platform does not support https: (e.g. message board PM) then run browser reliability check

Central Service:


1) Would receive, validate, and maintain reports of trolling behaviour
2) Would monitor reported user accounts to determine when thresholds have been reached
3) Would publish list of designated trolls to the web and provide copies of reported troll content for each
4) Would host a list of designated troll accounts for internet access by Sunshine browser plug-ins to use
5) Would host the review process (see below)

Review:

Gathering a certain threshold of objections to the the troll designation (again on the central service) would result in a public vote (all objectors, and original troll reporters would be notified). At the end of the vote the results would be submitted to a volunteer board along with the original "troll" comments.

There are 4 possible results of this review. (1) Malicious trolling, which upholds the troll status and marks objectors as possessors of poor judgment (their contributions to the listing, objections, and review processes would be ignored henceforth). (2) Trolling, which upholds the troll status. (3) Allowable comment, which removes the troll status. (4) Abusive Complaint, which removes the troll status and marks the original complainants and anyone who agreed with them as possessors of poor judgment (their contributions to the listing, objections, and review processes would be ignored henceforth).

In addition to the above, when first launching all users passing the troll designation threshold would undergo a quick review of some or all of their reported posts to confirm the reports were not malicious.
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Re:

Post #516 by RTWAP » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:21 am



Just re-read that again.

It's not a very important point, but I don't think Rodger's driving malevolence was misogyny. The thing he hated more than anything was the social dynamics of dating. Anyone who might understand it and be good at it was a target. It's speculation, but I bet he wouldn't have had a problem with a female quadriplegic. He wouldn't hate her because she was a woman. I can picture him not even conceiving of her as someone who would date. And even if he did, she probably wouldn't be desirable to him, and something that dating "rules" were preventing him from fucking.

It just seems like early on Rodgers probably had self-esteem issues and he responded by presenting a tough confident face to the world (or parts of it). And then his armour became the anchor that weighed him down. He couldn't accept that he needed to fit the social rules of dating, that he needed to face rejection, work on his social skills, etc. He just festered with the objects of his desire all around him and permanently out of reach due to his own choices about how to perceive himself and his "rightful" place in the world. It's fundamentally pathetic.

And he's probably not that unique in his anger toward society, some aspects of social dynamics, and the population groups that best reflect those dynamics. I actually have some sympathy for the young boy who felt bad about himself. But he chose the darkest path for getting out of it. He prioritized protecting his self-image over all else. It's kind of an auto-immune disorder of the brain, rejecting all input that might help him deserve his goal and instead just pretending he deserved it and others were taking it away.

But it's more of a technical argument about misogyny than an important distinction. He was relatively indiscriminately dangerous to many women. If someone wants to call that misogyny then OK. He certainly had a very broken view of the female-male dynamic when it came to dating.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #517 by Craig » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:10 pm

A global registry of undesirables? What could go wrong?
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #518 by jester » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:21 pm

Craig wrote:A global registry of undesirables? What could go wrong?


Eh, it's of note that this is a plug-in ... so, it would only come into effect for people that desire to have their web content censored. I agree, however, that it might be prone to potential abuses, or censorship overreach. A potentially "softer" option would be a plug-in that allowed you to create a filter for yourself, which most message board software has already.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #519 by Sturminator » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:56 pm

Hell hath no fury like a delusional weasel scorned.
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Re: Re:

Post #520 by RTWAP » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:58 pm

dempsey_k wrote:
RTWAP wrote:He was relatively indiscriminately dangerous to many women. If someone wants to call that misogyny then OK.


There's really nothing to say if you're capable of finding some nuance where that's not misogyny.

I'm glad we agree it's a nuance. And not a particularly important one.

Maybe we should ask Big#D to do an awesome Venn diagram of people Rodgers hated, women, and men.
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Re: Re:

Post #521 by Germz » Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:20 pm

RTWAP wrote:


But it's more of a technical argument about misogyny than an important distinction. He was relatively indiscriminately dangerous to many women. If someone wants to call that misogyny then OK.


It is.

Similarly, if a man from some kind of fundamentalist sect hates all women that don't 'know their place', then he's a misogynist, even if he loves his dutiful and obedient wife and daughter. If a white slave owner was kind to his own slaves but favoured their perpetual subjection because they were black, then he's a racist. If a conservative voter was ok with John Baird because he kept his sexuality 'private', but hated all gays who showed affection in public spaces because it was disgusting and unnatural, then he's a homophobe.

If you could only call someone a misogynist who absolutely hated all women on the planet without distinction, then we would have damn few misogynists in this world. And the truth is we have a lot.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #522 by TGR » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:34 pm

Regardless if you agree or disagree with this RooshV, why ban him from coming to Canadian cities?

Ottawa mayor Jim Watson is strongly against any of his meet-ups, but really.. who gives a flying fuck? 40-50 men in a hotel conference room is a big deal apparently...

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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #523 by TGR » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:55 pm



I mean.. look at this guy.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #524 by Dog » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:58 am

TGR wrote:Regardless if you agree or disagree with this RooshV, why ban him from coming to Canadian cities?

Ottawa mayor Jim Watson is strongly against any of his meet-ups, but really.. who gives a flying fuck? 40-50 men in a hotel conference room is a big deal apparently...



This kind of shit is good publicity for him with his angry ugly men constituency.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #525 by Dr_Chimera » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:04 am

"pro-rape views"?

_dong?
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Re: Re:

Post #526 by RTWAP » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:28 pm

Germz wrote:
RTWAP wrote:


But it's more of a technical argument about misogyny than an important distinction. He was relatively indiscriminately dangerous to many women. If someone wants to call that misogyny then OK.


It is.

Similarly, if a man from some kind of fundamentalist sect hates all women that don't 'know their place', then he's a misogynist, even if he loves his dutiful and obedient wife and daughter. If a white slave owner was kind to his own slaves but favoured their perpetual subjection because they were black, then he's a racist. If a conservative voter was ok with John Baird because he kept his sexuality 'private', but hated all gays who showed affection in public spaces because it was disgusting and unnatural, then he's a homophobe.

If you could only call someone a misogynist who absolutely hated all women on the planet without distinction, then we would have damn few misogynists in this world. And the truth is we have a lot.


In your examples the targeted groups are "all blacks", "all women behaving normally" and "all gays behaving normally". The counter example is of someone who hated a specific subset of the female and male populations who both participated successfully in dating. Does his expectations of attractive women display a profound lack of appreciation for and understanding of them as anything other than the focus of his desire? Yes. But if it had been a lesbian with exactly the same views and actions would anyone call her a misogynist? No. But that's so exceedingly unlikely to happen that it's only useful as a thought exercise.

But I don't really care to argue the point. The twerp hated some women because they didn't act the way he wanted them to. Aside from the selectivity of his hatred, and its gender balance, it's the same pattern as most other misogyny, where women face unfortunate obstacles and unwarranted consequences for acting on their own desires and in their own interests.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #527 by RTWAP » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:00 pm

jester wrote:
Craig wrote:A global registry of undesirables? What could go wrong?


Eh, it's of note that this is a plug-in ... so, it would only come into effect for people that desire to have their web content censored. I agree, however, that it might be prone to potential abuses, or censorship overreach. A potentially "softer" option would be a plug-in that allowed you to create a filter for yourself, which most message board software has already.


At its heart that is what I proposed, but then added a feature to allow someone to choose to crowdsource other's personal choices to ignore prospective trolls before they are ever noticed.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #528 by Slick Nick » Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:49 pm

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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #529 by Dr_Chimera » Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:44 pm

Don't know what's dumber, the kids or the self-satisfied douchebag interviewer. What is his point anyway? That Stanley Fish warped their minds?
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #530 by Sturminator » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:55 am

This is surely not what the family policy institute is driving at with that bit of silliness, but the concept of personal identity fully decoupled from the actual physical constraints of our existence is potentially pretty dangerous, as it puts a seductive modern twist on the old "soul myth". Teaching people that they can transcend their physical conditions simply by wishing for it to be so is a vital step towards a culture of docile, obedient workers who prefer escapism to rattling against the bars of their cages. See Marcuse, Herbert.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #531 by TGR » Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:44 pm

How great is America? The debate shifts from same-sex marriage to toilet laws.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #532 by Retarder S » Thu May 12, 2016 9:20 am

Nope.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #533 by Retarder S » Thu May 12, 2016 9:27 am

Chaos Reigns wrote:
Slick Nick wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfO1veFs6Ho


They didn't interview a single transgender student. They used dumb cis students to prove they were being indoctrinated by evil blue-haired Mengeles teaching abominable gender theory that's against Christ. Stuff like this is used to support bathroom laws like in North Carolina. The filmmakers and the people who paid for this should all be given swirleys in a toilet festering with diarrhea in the bathroom that biology determines they should use in their state of course.


The point of the video was showing just how empty someone's opinions can be on social matters such as the bathroom laws. At least, that's what I get out of videos like this. Not the by-partisanship you're describing.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #534 by Whit Dickman » Thu May 12, 2016 10:17 am

Chaos Reigns wrote:She's smarter than 99% of the dialog on this topic.



"self-care should always be #1" "We need to question who is free to speak"

She may be smarter than 99% of the dialog on the topic, but that says far more about the dialog than it does her.

She says that trigger warnings are used so that we can discuss things more openly. Uh... what?

Here's my question: If those who advocate for trigger warning care so much for the trauma of damaged individuals, who haven't they bothered reading any of the actual research on the topic? A trigger warning increases the likelihood of a negative emotional event. It's a straightforward mechanism: The 'warning' is interpreted as 'this is something that you should be offended by'. Trigger warnings are only appealing to SJWs because they make someone who they disagree with say something that they probably don't want to say. It's playground politics.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #535 by Retarder S » Thu May 12, 2016 10:46 am

I'd say the trigger warnings phenomena is used by people that can't stand their victimhood being challenged. Ironically trigger warnings actually prevent open dialogue, analysis and scrutiny, not the other way around.

This girl is just sounds like a closet SJW.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #536 by Whit Dickman » Thu May 12, 2016 11:45 am

Chaos Reigns wrote:
Whit Dickman wrote:She says that trigger warnings are used so that we can discuss things more openly. Uh... what?


Ok so imagine Bucky Barnes is sitting in your class, and he is triggered by that word combination that turns him into a killing machine. The discussion isn't so much fun anymore after he's smashed several students' faces on their desks and impaled the professor on a pen holder. That's a fictional exaggeration of what it feels like for some victims of violence to be forced to relive those things unexpectedly. If given proper warning, then they can do exactly what all the knuckledraggers demand of them: to buck up and get over it. At least usually. If they don't think they can, they have control over the situation to avert it - something they didn't have when they were victimized. Everyone's better off, and the discussion is indeed more open to actual victims who aren't flippant about it.

Now the fact that this is culture of victimhood abused and politicized by vapid tumblr idiots whose greatest victimization was someone spelling their difficult name wrong at Starbucks is another story. I'm much more with you on that.


But the trigger warning is one of the word combinations, dk. And there was no warning prior to the trigger warning, so it comes unexpectedly. The logic only makes sense in special cases where something particularly 'triggering' (perhaps a rape scene or something) is presented completely unexpectedly and the person isn't able to leave immediately. This is not a very common thing, and I can't imagine many college profs (or w/e) are doing stuff like this.

Trigger warnings do not give people any more or less control. Control is determined by the right to leave the room.
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Whit Dickman
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #537 by Whit Dickman » Thu May 12, 2016 11:47 am

And that, of course, is focusing solely on victims of violence. Victims of, say, racism cannot be trigger warning-ed into safety. Race is everywhere. Sexism is everywhere. Adding trigger warnings only increases the amount of triggers.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #538 by Germz » Thu May 12, 2016 11:47 am

Trigger warnings may be nonsense much of the time but I think they are historically useful nonsense. So many young progressives seem obsessed with the idea of empathy as a social good. Hence the election of a Canadian PM with 'emotional intelligence'. And I do think that empathy is a social good. Yes, they are probably too obsessed. Yes, some of them are more interested in narcissism and self-aggrandizement under the guise of empathy. Young people do and say stupid things when they get ideologically invested in something they deem to be meaningful. 60s radicals did and said the stupidest things. The stupidest. And contemporary progressives have chosen to make empathy meaningful.

You can be on the right side of history and still be an idiot. That's youth culture at its best. The idiot part is pretty inevitable; the right side of history part is not.
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Re: Gamer Gate (d_k is a self-loathing misandrist, but at least he's not Ernie)

Post #539 by Germz » Thu May 12, 2016 2:24 pm

Chaos Reigns wrote:
Whit Dickman wrote:But the trigger warning is one of the word combinations, dk.


Kiiiind of true, but to some extent that's the unpredictability of college climates that wish to remain harmful or not. Reasonable expectation. If I were a prof teaching Ovid I'd feel uncomfortable diving right in without a big ol TW, but if student orgs moved to ban it from campus or get me fired for teaching it, I'd fight that. I guess that's where I'd draw the line.


Yeah, banning Ovid would be straight up totalitarian lunacy. But the poem is awful rapey.

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