IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1651 by Dog » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:17 pm

Yeah, we're big in Japan.
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1652 by Whit Dickman » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:37 pm

Okay I think we all agree. Dog's assessment is accurate.

Here's a good article: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new ... -terrorist
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1653 by AD » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:57 pm

Dog wrote:At the core of this little disagreement, I think, is eb giving much more weight to ideologies in shapping behaviours than us and we giving much more weight to circumstances in shaping ideologies (ie. He thinks radical islam comes from islam and we think radical islam comes from socioeconomic conditions).


I don't think we disagree with the concept that ideologies shape behaviour (at least partly).


I just disagree with the concept that one specific X ideology of a subset A of ideologies is qualitatively inferior than the almost identical y and z ideologies of said subset A.

And inferior enough to warrant specific widespread criticism even though:

1- human history has shown that y and z ideologies have shaped behaviour almost identically over the last 2000 years

2- human history has shown that subsets B and C and their various affiliates have shaped behaviour almost identically over the last 10,000
years

3- even focusing on X ideology of subset A, then there are, within X, massively more people using X to contradict the very behaviour that EB is blaming on X.

And notwithstanding all of the above, EB chooses to attack X (not its entire Group A nor the mini sub groupings of X) with no apparent rationale other than ignorant western narrative on "the big bad X".
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1654 by AD » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:22 pm

Yes. Well that's the point we've been making for the better part of 3 years...

Humans suck.

And if you want to start getting specific about some humans, then you better actually pinpoint the actual bad humans and not stigmatize massively large portions of collateral people that share certain elements with them just because of intellectual laziness.
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1655 by edgar_dong » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:46 pm

We both know the nights were mainly made for saying things that you can't say tomorrow day
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1656 by PredsFan77 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:05 pm

damn first a machete attack near stuttgart and now a bomb went off in Bavaria too? Chickens are coming home to roost fellas.
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1657 by Slick Nick » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:38 am

Let me remind you that Obama and Hillary are directly responsible for creating a) 2 terrible wars that killed thousands in their respective countries while giving rise to problems that were not present when the terrible dictators were still in place b) that those wars had a great effect on creating a refugee crisis that lead to thousands of dead people trying to reach europe by sea c) that this crisis lead to an unmanagable ammount of immigrants in europe who create security and economic problems in the welcoming countries d) that this crisis has profoundly devided Europe causing (in part) the UK to vote for Brexit e) that this crisis has benefited to all the right wing and eurosceptic parties that are threatening the EU or at least the actual understanding of the EU.

Let me also remind you that the Ukrainian crisis is for the largest part due to Obama and Hillary. There was an agreement reached by France, Poland and Russia for anticipated elections. The push by the US to undermine democracy has lead to the Crimean and Donbass situations that lead to sanctions that are ruining pretty much everyone. It also lead to a new cold war and re-militarization of eastean Europe.

Great job Obama and Hillary. I really wish more of this.
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1658 by jester » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:58 am

Lead v. Lead (metal) v. Led is my biggest pet peeve as a paper grader, for the record.
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1659 by Whit Dickman » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:36 pm

Chaos Reigns wrote:
AD wrote:
Dog wrote:At the core of this little disagreement, I think, is eb giving much more weight to ideologies in shapping behaviours than us and we giving much more weight to circumstances in shaping ideologies (ie. He thinks radical islam comes from islam and we think radical islam comes from socioeconomic conditions).


I don't think we disagree with the concept that ideologies shape behaviour (at least partly).


I just disagree with the concept that one specific X ideology of a subset A of ideologies is qualitatively inferior than the almost identical y and z ideologies of said subset A.

And inferior enough to warrant specific widespread criticism even though:

1- human history has shown that y and z ideologies have shaped behaviour almost identically over the last 2000 years

2- human history has shown that subsets B and C and their various affiliates have shaped behaviour almost identically over the last 10,000
years

3- even focusing on X ideology of subset A, then there are, within X, massively more people using X to contradict the very behaviour that EB is blaming on X.

And notwithstanding all of the above, EB chooses to attack X (not its entire Group A nor the mini sub groupings of X) with no apparent rationale other than ignorant western narrative on "the big bad X".


I think the reason he does is part of a train of thought in New Atheist circles best illustrated by an allusion Hitch made to Camus's The Plague, in which they felt they destroyed it but it just retreated with the rats to the sewer to rise again later. So long as Islam exists, whether it be in the form of the Kharijites, the Assassins, the Almohads, the Qizilbash, the Wahhabis, the Khomeinists, the Taliban, etc. etc., there will always be holy texts to be read in such a way as to legitimize religious violence.

I don't think that's necessarily untrue, but I think it lacks serious perspective. Yes, there will always be a civilizational fringe that boils over and multiplies in times of tumult. So get rid of the civilization? And when it's gone (of course magically without any violence from another civilization that absorbs the other's violence, as is the common risk in vampire/zombie hunting), will no other civilizations prone to equal or greater violence arise? My essential point in this is that it's trivial to get caught up worry about Islam, because our own culture is equally bad, as is every other, so long as they're engage in by humans who use narratives to actuate their inner demons.


I think that this sort of cultural relativism is highly problematic.
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1660 by jester » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:11 pm

With good reason.
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1661 by AD » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:15 pm

I find it funny that EB glossed over the last 15 posts and raises the classic throwaway of cultural relativism.
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Post #1662 by Retarder S » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:17 pm

All of this will lead to civilization finally realizing that the only effective solution is to press the reset button.
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1663 by Dog » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:21 pm

I'm leading an enjoyable life, fellows. Can't we just keep going?

:why:
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Post #1664 by Retarder S » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:23 pm

Dog wrote:I'm leading an enjoyable life, fellows. Can't we just keep going?

:why:


Tolerance and a peaceful world is so pre-2010's. You better start subbing to that re-incarnation doctrine, Dog. Get with the program.
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1665 by Dog » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:25 pm

There's a reincarnation doctrine program?

Nobody ever tells me anything.

:crossarms:
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1666 by Retarder S » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Dog wrote:There's a reincarnation doctrine program?

Nobody ever tells me anything.

:crossarms:


Ever wonder why these guys don't give a single fuck? You probably talk to them about terrorism and they give you a cup of tea and drink it in silence while you blab about petty shit.
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Post #1667 by Whit Dickman » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:49 pm

Chaos Reigns wrote:
Whit Dickman wrote:I think that this sort of cultural relativism is highly problematic.


I'm not a cultural relativist in the sense that I think all cultures are static and joyful gifts from god. I think they all have ups and downs and there may come a time when other cultures rapidly outpace ours. There already has been a time when Islamic civilization looked upon us like a mysterious dark nothingness.


Yah, but if we accept that cultures are constantly changing, then the fact that a past Islamic civilization looked better than the western christian (at the time) one doesn't indicate that the current state of affairs is meaningless. All it means is that nothing is set in stone... which, of course, is implied by the fact that cultures are always changing and is nothing that anyone believes (apart from racists).
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Post #1668 by Retarder S » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:56 pm

Is violence in holy scripts relative to one another?
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Post #1669 by PredsFan77 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:56 pm

the difference between the rest of the world and the US in the last few terror attacks: In Japan and Germany, those ax/knife killers wouldve killed a lot more peeps if it took place in the US.
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Post #1670 by Dog » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:09 pm

Wasn't Japan a crazed ex-employee wanting to kill disabled patients?

Actually, if there is one common thread from the past few weeks it's probably mental health.
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Post #1671 by PredsFan77 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:15 pm

he just got fired from his job and went postal
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Post #1672 by Whit Dickman » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:32 pm

AD wrote:I find it funny that EB glossed over the last 15 posts and raises the classic throwaway of cultural relativism.


Stopped posting once we arrived at the conclusion that we all mostly agree
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Post #1673 by Whit Dickman » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:34 pm

interesting balance to be struck between female and muslim victimhood and concerns over the plight of female muslims in muslim countries.
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1674 by 19nazzy » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:43 pm

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/rcmp-det ... -1.3023694

The RCMP says a potential terrorist attack on a major Canadian city was thwarted on Wednesday after national security officials intervened in the alleged suicide bomb plot.
Sources told CTV’s Mercedes Stephenson that the lone male suspect was linked to ISIS.

According to an internal government document obtained by CTV News, the suspect allegedly planned to use an IED to carry out a suicide bombing mission in a public area. The suspect’s alleged plan, according to the document, was to create mass casualties.

A major RCMP counter-terrorism operation was swiftly carried out on Canadian soil on Wednesday. Security officials were able to locate the suspect and stop him from carrying out the alleged plan.

The RCMP has not said what city was targeted, where the suspect was found or released any details on the suspect. Security officials say there is no longer a threat to national security.
The RCMP released a statement saying it received "credible information of a potential terrorist threat" earlier in the day.

"A suspect was identified and the proper course of action has been taken to ensure that there is no danger to the public's safety," the statement said.

"The safety and security of Canadians is of the utmost importance to the RCMP and we take all such threats seriously. As this is still an unfolding matter and that the investigation is still underway, we are not able to provide further comment at this time."
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Post #1675 by AD » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:05 pm

Sounds made up. :colbert:
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Post #1676 by Dog » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:41 pm

Apparently there's a police operation with bomb squad in London, Ont going on now. May be related.

You leave D alone, AD!
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Post #1677 by Retarder S » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:08 pm

I want it to happen so bad in Montreal. My #PrayForMontreal is ready

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Post #1678 by Dog » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:23 pm

Was a white dude in a London suburb. Killed by police. All our terrists are white dudes.
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Post #1679 by Slick Nick » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:00 am

Retarder S wrote:I want it to happen so bad in Montreal. My #PrayForMontreal is ready

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#Pray4WestIsland
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Post #1680 by Boring Choice #2 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:56 am

Dog wrote:Was a white dude in a London suburb. Killed by police. All our terrists are white dudes.


it was outside london in a neighbouring town. not really much of a suburb. people don't usually work in london and live in strathroy.

also:
The man in his 20's originally from Winnipeg was killed in a confrontation with police, hours after Mounties confirmed they'd received "credible information" of a potential terrorist threat.


that pretty much explains it
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Post #1681 by 19nazzy » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:09 am

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/g ... -1.3716341

Looks like he was targeting Union Station.
The RCMP warned both the TTC and Metrolinx yesterday about a credible security threat that was related to an incident in Strathroy, Ont., during which police killed ISIS sympathizer Aaron Driver.

CBC News has also learned that the threat was directed at Union Station.

Brad Ross, spokesman for the Toronto Transit Commission, told CBC News that the TTC was made aware of a terror threat investigation, but had no specifics attached to it.

As a precaution, Ross said, the TTC issued a "see something, say something" vigilance notice to all staff.

Metrolinx operates GO Transit, the regional transit system that links Toronto to its suburbs and carries about 250,000 passengers daily, the bulk of them travelling to and from Union Station.

A 24-year-old man who had been under a peace bond for being an ISIS sympathizer was killed Wednesday night by police responding to what they say was "a potential terrorist threat" in the small southern Ontario town of Strathroy.

RCMP told Driver's family that police shot him after he detonated a device that wounded himself and one other person.

The identity of the other person isn't clear.

Police told the family they had to shoot Driver because he had another device and planned to detonate it. A senior police official told The Canadian Press on Wednesday that the man allegedly planned to use a bomb to carry out a suicide mission in a public area.
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Post #1682 by AD » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:28 am

I've never trusted an Aaron.
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Post #1683 by Dog » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:31 am

What was the first detonation? Accident?
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Post #1684 by Dog » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:32 am

AD wrote:I've never trusted Aaron.


corrected for transparency.
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Post #1685 by Dog » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:33 am

Anyway, this all goes to further disprove eb's theory that only arabs are terrists.
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Post #1686 by AD » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:37 am

Nope. Its the opposite dog. You don't get it. White dude from the peg read one passage of the Quran and the terroristy supra-effect of one little morsel of Islam made him into a killing machine.

Islam is dangerous man. Its not the people. Its the ideas, man.
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Post #1687 by Dog » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:41 am

Anywho, nice that a bunch of commuters didn't get killed and we don't have to deal with the toxic political fallout from these things right now.
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Post #1688 by AD » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:44 am

Yay RCMP.
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Post #1689 by Dog » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:54 am

The world needs more royal mounted policemen.
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Post #1690 by Boring Choice #2 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:03 am

AD wrote:Nope. Its the opposite dog. You don't get it. White dude from the peg read one passage of the Quran and the terroristy supra-effect of one little morsel of Islam made him into a killing machine.

Islam is dangerous man. Its not the people. Its the ideas, man.


- Tragically Hip singer is dying
- Tragically Hip has song about a Winnipeg-born (wrongly) convicted murderer referenced using "Sundown in the Paris of the Prairies" (originally a nickname of Winnipeg)
- Paris (the actual one) just suffered from a major terrorist attack in the last year
- Tragically Hip had a concert in Toronto last night
- This alleged terrorist from the Paris of the Praries was targeting Toronto
- Take down of terrorist happened around sundown

It's clear to me the cause of this event in Can-Con and not Islam. Canadian content legislation can be argued as much to be the root cause of evil as Islam or Heavy Metal music or Video Games.

AD wrote:Yay RCMP.


i read that in the melody of the village people. i assume that was the way it was intended
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Post #1691 by Dog » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:23 am

Paris of the prairies? Original nickname? Winnipeg?

:why:
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Post #1692 by AD » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:26 am

Saskatoon was the Paris of the Prairies.

:colbert:
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Post #1693 by AD » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:26 am

Is that better dog?
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Post #1694 by Dog » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:27 am

No wonder this ideology creates so much hate.
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Post #1695 by Dog » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:30 am

Dog wrote:What was the first detonation? Accident?


I'm curious about this. Seems like this rather fortuitous event is was gave him up and saved the day. "Oh shit, I just blew myself up a bit. No matter, i've got another one"?
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Post #1696 by Dog » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:36 am

It amazes me that this is getting relatively little media attention (less than a spectacular accident on the 40 two days ago in mtl media), but if he had carried it out we'd be engulfed in endless outcries that we aren't safe and must take drastic action against a grave danger and whatnot. The difference between the two seems to have simply been a fortuitous event. Same causes, circumstances, ability to build bomb, etc.

People are so like urgh.
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Post #1697 by Dog » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:38 am

Basically, people should freak out a little more about this and vastly less about the real thing.

#even_keel_reactions_to_attacks

:danson:
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Post #1698 by Dog » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:45 am

Actually seems unclear whether the first detonation was after first police intervention which was based on previous information police had. Toronto transit seems to have been notified of threat around noon. May be a win for csis/intelligence community.
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Post #1699 by Boring Choice #2 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:24 am

AD wrote:Saskatoon was the Paris of the Prairies.

:colbert:



http://www.hipmuseum.com/wheat.html

Wheat Kings references






"...Sundown in the Paris of the Prairies."

As you'll read below, "Wheat Kings" tells the story of David Milgaard, a young Winnipeg-born hippie wrongly convicted of the grisly rape and murder of Saskatchewan nurse Gail Miller.

Long before this incident, during the period of Western Canadian settlement that spanned 1896 to 1914, western immigration agents began flaunting the merits of their soon to be settled towns. As each agent was paid only on the percentage of settlers he could attract, stretching the truth became a common trick of the trade. Winnipeg, which at the turn of the 20th century was a dusty railway stop, was first to be called the "Paris of the Prairies," Calgary also billed itself as such later on. One pamphlet for Saskatoon, the town where the Milgaard saga unfolded, read: "The fastest growing city in the world, an astounding modern miracle. The eight wonder of the British Empire, it is the largest city in the world for it's age. The greatest example of town and city building in the worlds history."
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Dog
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Re: IS this discussion done now? Broads discuss the root cause of evil.

Post #1700 by Dog » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:35 am

Saskatchewan? Hippie? Distorting the truth to further agenda? Rape stories? Terrorism?

:stare:

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