Middle East GDT IV

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses
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Middle East GDT IV

Post #1 by Pennywise » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:31 pm

Isn't it proven that most of these Crusades were purely defensive in nature?
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Post #2 by AD » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:32 pm

And had little to do with Christianity.
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Post #3 by AD » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:33 pm

Look up "execution".
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Post #4 by Pennywise » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:26 pm

dempsey_k wrote:Erm, noooooooooo. No, no.


No.


:pacman:

I went overboard with most, but a notable amount? I really never got into the Crusades (obviously). Recommend anything good to read/watch?

On topic..U.S. must help Iraqi Christians help themselves
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Post #5 by jester » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:36 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:Execution: "the carrying out of a sentence of death on a condemned person."

Condemned: "sentence (someone) to a particular punishment, especially death."

Sentence: "the punishment assigned to a defendant found guilty by a court, or fixed by law for a particular offense."

So, the law in the case of ISIS is Sharia Law? And so because the action is linked to this legal framework it is valid to call it an execution?

I'm not trying to be cute about this and I know that I'm ignorant. I'm just curious about it is all. I've heard some other people speak about how these deaths are "murders" and shouldn't be referred to as "executions", so I didn't know what that was really about.


That's the semantics game to delegitimize their actions (with reason).
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Post #6 by jester » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:37 pm

Shredder wrote: :pacman:

I went overboard with most, but a notable amount? I really never got into the Crusades (obviously). Recommend anything good to read/watch?

On topic..U.S. must help Iraqi Christians help themselves


Only if you define defensive in such liberal terms that it loses all meaning.
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Post #7 by Pennywise » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:42 pm

Defensive as fuck off Islam (as they were making advances) so Pope Urban let the dogs loose. Maybe preemptive is a better word.

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Post #8 by jester » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:17 pm

Shredder wrote:Defensive as fuck off Islam (as they were making advances) so Pope Urban let the dogs loose. Maybe preemptive is a better word.


Yeah, no.
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Post #9 by Pennywise » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:18 pm

jester wrote:Yeah, no.


Why do a lot of people hold that stance though?
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Post #10 by Pennywise » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:02 am

Thomas Malthus wrote:Execution: "the carrying out of a sentence of death on a condemned person."

Condemned: "sentence (someone) to a particular punishment, especially death."

Sentence: "the punishment assigned to a defendant found guilty by a court, or fixed by law for a particular offense."

So, the law in the case of ISIS is Sharia Law? And so because the action is linked to this legal framework it is valid to call it an execution?

I'm not trying to be cute about this and I know that I'm ignorant. I'm just curious about it is all. I've heard some other people speak about how these deaths are "murders" and shouldn't be referred to as "executions", so I didn't know what that was really about.


Good site to mess around - Laws and Worship

Scenes from Daily Life Inside ISIS-Controlled Mosul

[YOUTUBE]jOaBNbdUbcA[/YOUTUBE]

James M. Arlandson: Thirty Shariah Laws That Are Bad For All Societies
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Post #11 by jester » Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:51 am

Shredder wrote:Why do a lot of people hold that stance though?


Because people make shit up? The First Crusade, in particular, had nothing to do with defense. Urban claimed Christians were being persecuted, but that was a less than honest claim and completely hypocritical. The Byzantine Empire was threatened, but that was a distinct entity from Catholic Europe and there was no threat to Europe at that stage.

One of the most compelling reason for the Crusades had nothing to do with Jerusalem or anything else. They were a release valve for younger aristocratic sons, and a means of directing the internecine conflicts of Europe in a more "productive" direction. A wonderful side effect of this was to further enhance the papacy.

Eventually the Ottoman Empire is going to come along, and that will be a different story.
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Post #12 by jester » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:41 am

Particularly when you are dealing with a martial caste of some sort.
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Post #13 by Craig » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:54 am

dempsey_k wrote:What's funny is that this is becoming a common interpretation of what the Islamic State is doing. Sending those eager and unstable souls who have no place in the future of the Khilafah to die in Kobane, Mosul, etc.

Also what Alexander's generals frequently did to shore up loyalty during the wars of succession.

Pretty good tactic really.


Shouldn't you first establish somewhat of a certainty of a future before you go offing your idle manpower?
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Post #14 by AD » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:05 am

Hitchens is right on one point at least, the monotheistic religions have a bit of a death cult going on. So mass deaths (and individual death) isn't necessarily seen as an issue.
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Post #15 by AD » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:29 am

The sacrifice of peons for the greater good/the king/god/whatever is as old as monkeys on earth, but I wanted to give a shout out to Hitchens.
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Post #16 by Germz » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:34 am

AD wrote:Hitchens is right on one point at least, the monotheistic religions have a bit of a death cult going on. So mass deaths (and individual death) isn't necessarily seen as an issue.


True, although not much of a reach for Buddhism or for readers of the Gita either.
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Post #17 by AD » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:34 am

Fine. Fuck Hitchens.
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Post #18 by Germz » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:36 am

AD wrote:Fine. Fuck Hitchens.


For God's sake, banana, don't speak ill of the dead.
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Post #19 by Pennywise » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:20 pm

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Post #20 by RTWAP » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:50 pm

Thomas Malthus wrote:I'm not trying to be cute about this and I know that I'm ignorant. I'm just curious about it is all. I've heard some other people speak about how these deaths are "murders" and shouldn't be referred to as "executions", so I didn't know what that was really about.


I think in common usage execution is different from murder in that it suggests a very deliberate act, typically in service to some larger organization or goal, like "The Columbian drug cartel executed an undercover DEA agent." It also tends to be somewhat impersonal.

To me ISIS engages in executions. And no, I haven't watched any of them.
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Post #22 by PredsFan77 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:36 am

[RIGHT]Image[/RIGHT]
CDX.NA.IG.9









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Post #23 by PredsFan77 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:35 pm

He's the next President of the United States. Have some respect, Demp. He's just pandering to his big pocket defense donors to make sure they stock his campaign with billions of dollars.
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Post #24 by jester » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:11 pm

Well then.
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Post #25 by PredsFan77 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:26 pm

I'm watching the top gear middle east special. It's funny to susf at. They avoided Baghdad and Mosul to drive through Turkish kurdistan and syria to get to Bethlehem.
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Post #26 by Pennywise » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:46 pm

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Post #27 by Pennywise » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:18 pm

Officials: Kayla Mueller May Have Been Given to ISIS Commander

Enoughs enough. Although a lot of people are disputing this. Time to send some Tomahawks into Libya, Jordanians into Anbar to work with tribes etc. This conflict is already heated, on one side. It's time to start smashing skulls with special forces raids and some type of presence on the ground, but it looks like Obama will put it off until the next Presidency. Assad is becoming a cocky little fucker. He should wise up, because they will take him out. Can't end ISIS without ending Assad in one way or another. The Syrian people won't fight for our interests until something changes. Push the caliphate out of Anbar and Nineveh and into Baghdad and let Iran and Soleimani deal with it.

[SIZE="3"]Iran Is Ready to Take Over Iraq’s Troops[/size]
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Post #28 by PredsFan77 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:22 pm

QATAR GONNA SEND DAT OIL TO EUROPE
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Post #29 by Ernie » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:55 pm

Shredder wrote:Enoughs enough. Although a lot of people are disputing this. Time to send some Tomahawks into Libya, Jordanians into Anbar to work with tribes etc. This conflict is already heated, on one side. It's time to start smashing skulls with special forces raids and some type of presence on the ground, but it looks like Obama will put it off until the next Presidency. Assad is becoming a cocky little fucker. He should wise up, because they will take him out. Can't end ISIS without ending Assad in one way or another. The Syrian people won't fight for our interests until something changes. Push the caliphate out of Anbar and Nineveh and into Baghdad and let Iran and Soleimani deal with it.



Why should the US do any of this?
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Post #30 by Pennywise » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:06 pm

dempsey_k wrote:This will be enormous if true, just rumor right now, but tweeter was a month ahead of everyone on the death of the Jordanian pilot by fire specifically.

[tweet]565656418087612416[/tweet]


What might be true?
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Post #31 by Pennywise » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:11 pm

Ernie wrote:Why should the US do any of this?


Before this whole ISIS thing turned ugly, I was in favor in no military action. But, unfortunately this has escalated and ISIS has made it clear they are at war with the west. I'm not saying re-invade with thousands of troops. Just kick it up a notch. We're in this fight whether we like it or not, it's time to play our cards right and start doing serious damage to ISIS.

US also shouldn't back down to Iran like what is being done right now. They need to be checked at some point.

End of the day, all I am saying is get a little more involved on the ground and speed up a solution to the Syrian conflict.
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Post #32 by PredsFan77 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:28 pm

Ernie wrote:Why should the US do any of this?


QATAR GONNA SEND DAT OIL TO EUROPE
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Post #33 by AD » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:30 pm

Thats just good clean fun.

Edit: Obviously I'm talking about Hizb'Allah not the gore.
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Post #34 by Dr_Chimera » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:10 am

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Post #35 by Ernie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:32 pm

Maybe there should be a separate thread where you and Shredder can post your gore vids.
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Post #36 by jester » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:36 pm

Ernie wrote:Maybe there should be a separate thread where you and Shredder can post your gore vids.


... Literally no gore in that video.
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Post #37 by Pennywise » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:40 pm

[CENTER]Image[/CENTER]


Apaches tearing up some ISIS, but things are getting close in Anbar. US Apache Helicopters Attack ISIS Base: Report
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Post #38 by Pennywise » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:40 pm

Ernie wrote:Maybe there should be a separate thread where you and Shredder can post your gore vids.


Maybe there should be a separate forum where you can contribute anything worthwhile, because I can't find it here.































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Post #39 by edgar_dong » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:58 pm

You fellas lay off my buddy Érnest.
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Post #40 by Ernie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:01 pm

Shredder wrote:Maybe there should be a separate forum where you can contribute anything worthwhile, because I can't find it here.


Your loyalty to dempsey is cute considering all the shitting he's done on you.
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Post #41 by Ernie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:01 pm

jester wrote:... Literally no gore in that video.


A human exploding in a ball of flames isn't gore?
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Post #42 by Pennywise » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:03 pm

Ernie wrote:Your loyalty to dempsey is cute considering all the shitting he's done on you.


I don't care what he's done to me, you brought me into this for no reason so don't not expect a response. I haven't seen him act like a dick in a while, so I'm not sure what your beef is with him.

Anyways, I just posted an interesting article in bleetblop, so everyone check it out and lets continue on with the thread.
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Post #43 by Ernie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:06 pm

Shredder wrote:I don't care what he's done to me, you brought me into this for no reason so don't not expect a response. I haven't seen him act like a dick in a while, so I'm not sure what your beef is with him.


That's true, you haven't posted a beheading video in a long while. I just thought it was funny he thought it was ok to post a human fireball but was giving you shit about posting vids previously.

Of course he's made it clear he doesn't consider ISIS adherents to be human. Personally, I think that a human committing suicide because of a misguided ideology (and healthy doses of ignorance) isn't something to cheer over.
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Post #44 by Pennywise » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:07 pm

Ernie wrote:That's true, you haven't posted a beheading video in a long while. I just thought it was funny he thought it was ok to post a human fireball but was giving you shit about posting vids previously.


Yeah Ernie, I've posted a beheading video here. C'mon, the MooseOak playbook is worn out. There is plenty of shit you can find to rag about me on, but I've never once posted a beheading video here, nor would I.
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Post #45 by Ernie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:10 pm

Shredder wrote:Yeah Ernie, I've posted a beheading video here. C'mon, the MooseOak playbook is worn out. There is plenty of shit you can find to rag about me on, but I've never once posted a beheading video here, nor would I.


MooseOak?

I thought I remembered you posting a bunch of gory vids, but I wasn't following the thread that closely so perhaps I'm wrong.

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