Maybe a joke about Bill Morneau

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3701 by Boring Choice #2 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:49 am

Dog wrote:I don’t mind getting rid of school boards. Heck I don’t mind getting rid of elected offices in most municipalities.

I’ve never bought the zero net change simpler tax code thing.


Welcome to the dark side, doggie.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3702 by Dog » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:11 am

I've been seeing things a little too eye to eye with D lately. At what point do I start railing against the census?

:why:
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3703 by Craig » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:14 am

Dog, how are you arguing against flatter taxes and tax cuts to the bottom two tax brackets, claiming both aren't redistributive?
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3704 by Dog » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:44 am

Craig wrote:Dog, how are you arguing against flatter taxes and tax cuts to the bottom two tax brackets, claiming both aren't redistributive?


because they aren't. Higher earners (those that at least top off the brackets) get the most dollar reduction. So "rich" people get the same or more dollar cuts than low earners. Also, some 30-40% of low earners don't even pay income tax as is. This is a middle-class to upper class cut in effect. Targeted measures (low salary top off income, free quality childcare for lower earners, etc.) are more redistributive.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3705 by Boring Choice #2 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:00 am

We should just change the tax rate to a logarithmic equation instead of brackets and ditch most / all of the tax deductions. That'd be a truly progressive tax system.

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I don't think the government should be in the business of directing people what to do with their money.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3706 by Dog » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:00 am

Take the hypothetical example of a rate cut to brackets up to $40K of income, which is roughly the middle canadian incone. Only those earning $40K or more (middle income and up) will get the full effect of the cut. Somebody making $30K will only get the benefit up to $30K. Somebody making $20K likely paid so little income tax that they barely get any benefit. So, in effect, a $200K earner gets the same benefit as a $40K earner and a bigger benefit than a sub $40K earner.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3707 by Dog » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:16 am

Boring Choice #2 wrote:
I don't think the government should be in the business of directing people what to do with their money.


I don’t think that’s a point of view that reflects reality (of other than a lone wolf in the forest). From the moment you get societal arrangements, you get pooling of ressources. Cooperation makes everybody richer, but implies communal administration and public policy.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3708 by Boring Choice #2 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:22 am

Pooling of resources for the benefit of society as a whole and to help those in society who need a helping hand is one thing. Directing them to spend their money on niche items is quite another.

For instance, the child sports tax credit was a way to get kids into sporting activities, which is noble, but really not the government's business. Nor are research grants or subsidies for the mining and petroleum industries.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3709 by Craig » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:30 am

Dog wrote:Take the hypothetical example of a rate cut to brackets up to $40K of income, which is roughly the middle canadian incone. Only those earning $40K or more (middle income and up) will get the full effect of the cut. Somebody making $30K will only get the benefit up to $30K. Somebody making $20K likely paid so little income tax that they barely get any benefit. So, in effect, a $200K earner gets the same benefit as a $40K earner and a bigger benefit than a sub $40K earner.


Right, so raising the taxes on this bracket until we get to a flat tax must be more beneficial to low earners, right? This is essentially a zero sum game.

You gotta pick one. Flat taxes or progressive taxes.

You can also take the stance that you think the brackets are progressive enough already and you'd rather focus on spending, but that's really just changing the subject.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3710 by Dog » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:24 pm

Craig wrote:
Dog wrote:Take the hypothetical example of a rate cut to brackets up to $40K of income, which is roughly the middle canadian incone. Only those earning $40K or more (middle income and up) will get the full effect of the cut. Somebody making $30K will only get the benefit up to $30K. Somebody making $20K likely paid so little income tax that they barely get any benefit. So, in effect, a $200K earner gets the same benefit as a $40K earner and a bigger benefit than a sub $40K earner.


Right, so raising the taxes on this bracket until we get to a flat tax must be more beneficial to low earners, right? This is essentially a zero sum game.

You gotta pick one. Flat taxes or progressive taxes.

You can also take the stance that you think the brackets are progressive enough already and you'd rather focus on spending, but that's really just changing the subject.


Of course raising the lower brackets will have effect on lower earners. Nobody is talking about raising lower brackets.

I’d prefer not lowering taxes at all or increasing on higher brackets (even creating higher brackets at higher rates) and « investing » in measures directed at low earners and infrastructure. Adress inequality and productivity.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3711 by Dog » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:27 pm

Boring Choice #2 wrote:Pooling of resources for the benefit of society as a whole and to help those in society who need a helping hand is one thing. Directing them to spend their money on niche items is quite another.

For instance, the child sports tax credit was a way to get kids into sporting activities, which is noble, but really not the government's business. Nor are research grants or subsidies for the mining and petroleum industries.


I agree that using tax policy to hand out useless electoral candy and giving in to lobby groups is bad.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3712 by Craig » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:22 am

More detailed plan:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/p ... -1.4419801

It's honesty not that bad. They're uploading subway costs to the province, but letting the TTC keep fares. That's really important, because otherwise the TTC would be royally fucked trying to maintain the bus routes. Tax plan is as previously described. Sliding scale rebates for daycare. More hydro rebates.

I'd still rather not cut taxes right now, since the stimulus isn't needed. I'd also like to be paying down the debt instead of adding to it slightly. But all in all, it's actually a pretty progressive plan for the conservatives. Best election plan they've had in a loooooong time.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3713 by Craig » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:22 am

*this message brought to you by the Liberal Party of Ontario.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3714 by Boring Choice #2 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:50 am

why would you let the ttc keep subway fares to subsidize buses? you might as well just split the two and provide the buses a subsidy if it doesn't make enough money.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3715 by Craig » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:20 am

I presume to have the same result, without the hassle and additional overhead of having two separate fare and collection structures. Like what if someone gets on a subway then transfers to a bus or streetcar, or vis-versa? Right now I have a metropass that gets me unlimited travel on subways, streetcars and busses. Splitting that would be a PITA.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3716 by Boring Choice #2 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:22 am

I thought they'd bring the subways in as part of the go train system and keep it separate from the bus/tram system. I guess not then.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3717 by Craig » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:26 am

Super unlikely. Eventually it all ends up on Presto, but the busses and streetcars can't operate without integration with the subways.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3718 by Boring Choice #2 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:34 am

Craig wrote:Super unlikely. Eventually it all ends up on Presto, but the busses and streetcars can't operate without integration with the subways.


sure they could. it's just not what you're used to. honestly, if the province took over public transport for the whole province and ran it well, it mightn't be the worst thing.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3719 by Craig » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:00 pm

To be frank D, this is one of those situations where knowledge of the system makes you more likely to know what you're talking about, not less.

Busses and streetcars are designed to funnel people to/from the subways. If you ditch the integration you need to rework the whole system.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3720 by Boring Choice #2 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:43 pm

Craig wrote:To be frank D, this is one of those situations where knowledge of the system makes you more likely to know what you're talking about, not less.

Busses and streetcars are designed to funnel people to/from the subways. If you ditch the integration you need to rework the whole system.


okay. i'll take your word on it. honestly, my preference, if i were "the power that be" would be to amalgamate all public transport together under one banner, whether it be province-wide or just in the gta (i.e. bus/tram/subway with go trains) to make it as seemless as possible.

i don't see the point of sort of managing part of the sytem, but not all of it. but if it works for torontonians, who am i to judge?
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3721 by AD » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:51 pm

Quebec did that. All of Montreal and the surroundings have a single regional transport authority that manages / will manage everything from subways, trains, buses, highway lanes, etc. Its been only a year but I think its a good idea.

They poached all the subject matter experts from a few sub agencies and most of the team is from what used to be the Montreal Transport board so its not political at all. Ultimately it answers to the Minister of transportation I suppose.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3722 by AD » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:54 pm

We still have varying fare systems for trains, subways and buses and the new light rail. But I'm hoping they get their act together and integrate everything in a single payment mechanism (like Tokyo.. where you can pay taxis, and even your coffee and muffin in a convenience store, with your same subway card).
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3723 by Craig » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:59 pm

We already have the single payment mechanism. It's just that you can't take the subway fares away from the city if you expect them to keep operating the busses and streetcars, which wouldn't survive on their own fares alone. So either the province needs to take it all, or they can leave it all in the hands of the city and help out with the money, which is what this plan amounts to.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3724 by senate » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:12 pm

How about all three levels of government take all the money they spend on public transportation and instead use it to buy everyone a moped?
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3725 by AD » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:15 pm

Or force people live in identical (400sq foot per person) appartments within 1km of their work.

That's my solution.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3726 by Boring Choice #2 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:16 pm

Craig wrote:We already have the single payment mechanism. It's just that you can't take the subway fares away from the city if you expect them to keep operating the busses and streetcars, which wouldn't survive on their own fares alone. So either the province needs to take it all, or they can leave it all in the hands of the city and help out with the money, which is what this plan amounts to.


i thought the ideas was that they were taking the operation of the subway out of the city's hands and just leaving the money to run the buses and streetcars. single payer is fine, but it'd be more efficient if the operations were combined as well. the province should probably just have combined the go train service with the ttc and then kept providing it with subsidies.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3727 by MP » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:53 pm

Boring Choice #2 wrote:We should just change the tax rate to a logarithmic equation instead of brackets and ditch most / all of the tax deductions. That'd be a truly progressive tax system.

Image

I don't think the government should be in the business of directing people what to do with their money.

I can live with that.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3728 by Craig » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:10 pm

Boring Choice #2 wrote:
Craig wrote:We already have the single payment mechanism. It's just that you can't take the subway fares away from the city if you expect them to keep operating the busses and streetcars, which wouldn't survive on their own fares alone. So either the province needs to take it all, or they can leave it all in the hands of the city and help out with the money, which is what this plan amounts to.


i thought the ideas was that they were taking the operation of the subway out of the city's hands and just leaving the money to run the buses and streetcars. single payer is fine, but it'd be more efficient if the operations were combined as well. the province should probably just have combined the go train service with the ttc and then kept providing it with subsidies.


They're taking the operating cost of the subways out, but I'm not sure if the plan is to take the actual operation out. It would be nearly impossible to do so, since the subways and lesser transit share so many facilities already. At the end of the day, I think they're just cutting the TTC a cheque, but also getting a bigger voice in the future priorities of the system. I'd wager the province wants to eventually wrap everything up under Metrolinx, but to date their plans for that have mostly consisted of putting Presto (the unified payment thing) into all the TTC vehicles and stations, but otherwise leaving operation to the TTC. The thing is, the province doesn't have any interest or expertise in metropolitan bus networks. Their whole thing is connecting municipalities to one another, not urban planning or connecting poor neighbourhoods to grocery stores and social services.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3729 by MP » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:59 pm

Justin sure likes to apologize...
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3730 by Boring Choice #2 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:26 pm

I'm sure he will apologize for that sometime too.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3731 by The Bytown Boozer » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:31 pm

Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long for the federal government to apologize for the veritable witch-hunt it engaged in with regards to gay people in the public service throughout the latter half of the 20th century.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3732 by Dog » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:40 am

The Bytown Boozer wrote:Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long for the federal government to apologize for the veritable witch-hunt it engaged in with regards to gay people in the public service throughout the latter half of the 20th century.


Old white mens don’t like the frivolity of appolizing to minorities for decades/centuries of discrimination and abuse.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3733 by chicpea » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:41 pm

Bout fuckin time, ya ask me.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3734 by The Bytown Boozer » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:34 pm

Always nice to see our very own Westy in the news...

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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3735 by Dog » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:03 pm

He was defending his country against the french-sounding, Spanish speaking Colombian immigrant ISIS cell.


"He started saying we don't belong here, that we are speaking French. But we were not speaking French, we were speaking Spanish. We don't know him," said Estepa in the apartment he shares with Zambrano and their 13-year-old son.

You can’t make this shit up.

http://www.cbc.ca/1.4439437
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3736 by senate » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:02 pm

No Spaniard should ever have to suffer the indignity of being treated like a Frenchman.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3737 by clawfirst » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:18 pm

Keep Canada great....
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3738 by Westy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:40 am

The Bytown Boozer wrote:Always nice to see our very own Westy in the news...



Beemer drivers really are the worst.
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Re: Canadian politics thread

Post #3739 by The Bytown Boozer » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:51 am

The new name for this thread bores me.

May I suggest something like...

'The Paul Martin Jr. High Seas Shipping & Tax Avoidance Club™'

or maybe a joke about Bill Morneau.

Thank u.
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Re: Maybe a joke about Bill Morneau

Post #3740 by Dog » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:02 am

I’d like to rep the thread title. Thank you.
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Re: Maybe a joke about Bill Morneau

Post #3741 by PPJ » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:41 pm

Am I the only one who mixes Garneau and Marneau up? I Look at the thread title and think, why the fuck are people joking about a Canadian icon? Then I realize, oh it's that weasely finance guy, lol.
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Re: Maybe a joke about Bill Morneau

Post #3742 by PredsFan77 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:26 pm

I thought he played baseball
CDX.NA.IG.9









[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
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Re: Maybe a joke about Bill Morneau

Post #3743 by MP » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:41 pm

PPJ wrote:Am I the only one who mixes Garneau and Marneau up? I Look at the thread title and think, why the fuck are people joking about a Canadian icon? Then I realize, oh it's that weasely finance guy, lol.

Happens to the best of us Retarder_S
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Re: Maybe a joke about Bill Morneau

Post #3744 by Dr_Chimera » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:21 pm

Why can't Justin and Sophie-Gregoire Trudeau comfortably enjoy their holidays in the company of the queen of funk Chaka Khan?
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Re: Maybe a joke about Bill Morneau

Post #3745 by TGR » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:20 am







Image
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Re: Maybe a joke about Bill Morneau

Post #3746 by PPJ » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:16 am

For the first time in my life I like Laureen Harper. Fuck you Steve Ecklund for doing this to me.
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Re: Maybe a joke about Bill Morneau

Post #3747 by Boring Choice #2 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:36 am

if there were ever an expert on creepy men with cats, i'm guessing it would be laureen harper.

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Re: Maybe a joke about Bill Morneau

Post #3748 by Dog » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:17 pm

Albeit, I have to say, I don’t really know what’s the difference between hunting a cougar and eating it (during legal cougar hunting season) and hunting a dear or whatever and eating it. She doesn’t like the ‘bravado’ aspect of it? Hunting should be mecanical and dispassionate?

:dunno:
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Re: Maybe a joke about Bill Morneau

Post #3749 by MP » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:33 pm

Mess with one cougar, mess with them all...
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Re: Maybe a joke about Bill Morneau

Post #3750 by Craig » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:58 pm

Dog wrote:Albeit, I have to say, I don’t really know what’s the difference between hunting a cougar and eating it (during legal cougar hunting season) and hunting a dear or whatever and eating it. She doesn’t like the ‘bravado’ aspect of it? Hunting should be mecanical and dispassionate?

:dunno:


Did he use every part of the cougar? If so, there's really no difference provided the cougar stocks in the area he hunted are healthy.

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