Universities Are Fucked

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses
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MP
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Post #51 by MP » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:09 pm

embracedbias wrote:Image


Little does the clown know, that branches don't move upwards as trees grow, the sprout new ones at the top...
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Post #52 by Craig » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:10 pm

mooseOAK wrote:No, I said that the colleges get their money and the students don't necessarily benefit. Debt slavery is thrust at us from all angles and not only by student loans, it's an ongoing issue.


So when you said some do, most don't what exactly were you talking about?
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Post #53 by Craig » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:42 pm

mooseOAK wrote:To correct that statement a capitalist society is few make it, most won't. Even those on the winning side say that for crying out loud.
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Post #54 by Dog » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:12 pm

mooseOAK wrote:That was in response to jester writing that in a capitalist system some make it and some don't, I was just tweaking it to reflect reality.


What's "it" in most don't make "it" in a capitalist society?
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Post #55 by Dog » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:14 pm

Why am I cragging?

:why:
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Post #56 by Craig » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:14 pm

Dog wrote:Why am I cragging?

:why:


Because moose is saying shit that's really obviously wrong?
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Post #57 by jester » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:17 am

mooseOAK wrote:I think that they leverage the free flow of student loans made to people with no income to boost tuition rates to their advantage first. The risk goes to the student and the government and the schools just cash the cheques.

There is an over supply but I don't have a solution because it is a free world and people are going to do what they will especially with societal pressures to get an education. I just think that whenever this type of situation happens people will be preyed upon. There are cases in the US of privately run schools taking money from students and going bankrupt leaving them with no degree and in debt. But that's just good old capitalism, I guess.

Does the $20,000 average include kids who have no debt because their parents paid for their education?


Most likely, because that's how averages work. The data really doesn't support the critique you are attempting. At all.

Of course, you're not alone in making this talking point ... there are a lot of millenials pushing this narrative because they don't like paying their bills. Yes, college is expensive ... that does not mean it isn't worth it, or that it is some type of ponzi scheme.
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Post #58 by Offseason Shredder » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:25 am

College is good if you take advantage of it *duh*, but it seems like its paying for some indoctrination and a decent professor or two. I like a broad approach to learning and I could do without the frat shit. I learned my audio engineering trade from a great teacher and it wasn't too expensive. I can study what I want and look into entrepreneurial ideas in my free time. I did two years at Stony Brook and I just ended up selling weed to the chinese folk most of the time. If I got a ride at a place like Harvard I would definitely change my tactics. You gotta cash in on that investment.
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Post #59 by Craig » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:28 am

Cashing in on Harvard just means getting the Harvard degree. The incentive to actual learn things doesn't change.
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Post #60 by Offseason Shredder » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:32 am

Craig wrote:Cashing in on Harvard just means getting the Harvard degree. The incentive to actual learn things doesn't change.


Yeah, it's the degree itself and the Harvard name tag that's going to get you where you're going. Other people may know just as much, if not more. It's an obvious fault of the system and for poorer families, it's much harder to get there. I'm sure you could hunker down and learn a ton of shit there but at the end of the day most students are going to party a bit. When it comes to learning I believe everyone should get some type of even start.

Edit: But institutions are going to institute.
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Post #61 by jester » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:37 pm

... Harvard is actually pretty much free if you're poor. Getting in may be more difficult due to the flaws in the educational system at the primary and secondary levels, but that's not Harvard's fault, per se.
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Post #62 by Offseason Shredder » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:42 pm

jester wrote:... Harvard is actually pretty much free if you're poor. Getting in may be more difficult due to the flaws in the educational system at the primary and secondary levels, but that's not Harvard's fault, per se.


There are ways in, but trust me, there are free riders who do drugs all throughout high school and ride the system just because they have cash. Go to any school they want and they're grades and GPA sucks. That's all I'm saying. Someone growing up in a lower income household can't do that. I don't mind the idea of college I would rather see some changes made for sure though. A lot of weird shit goes on at universities. Skull and Bones, etc.
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Post #63 by jester » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:54 pm

Shredder wrote:There are ways in, but trust me, there are free riders who do drugs all throughout high school and ride the system just because they have cash. Go to any school they want and they're grades and GPA sucks. That's all I'm saying. Someone growing up in a lower income household can't do that. I don't mind the idea of college I would rather see some changes made for sure though. A lot of weird shit goes on at universities. Skull and Bones, etc.


... Well, Harvard is known for its easy grading, so their grades probably don't suck. It's also very hard to get into Harvard, even with connections, without being at baseline pretty smart.

Secret societies are such a minor aspect of these schools that it's odd to even bring them up.
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Post #64 by Offseason Shredder » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:38 pm

jester wrote:... Well, Harvard is known for its easy grading, so their grades probably don't suck. It's also very hard to get into Harvard, even with connections, without being at baseline pretty smart.

Secret societies are such a minor aspect of these schools that it's odd to even bring them up.


When it relates to the ideology/sociology/way of thinking and the upper echelon of living, it has everything to do with it. It is the embodiment of what is wrong with the system.
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Post #65 by jester » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:32 pm

Shredder wrote:When it relates to the ideology/sociology/way of thinking and the upper echelon of living, it has everything to do with it. It is the embodiment of what is wrong with the system.


Honestly man, you've seen too many movies or something. Those societies are so small, so marginal, and have literally nothing to do with 99% of the folks at those schools.
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Post #66 by BlackRedGold » Wed May 06, 2015 10:58 am

Dog wrote:On the government subsidy question, a place like Quebec (and the rest of Canada, to a lesser extent) is close to the opposite end of the spectrum. A uni degree here costs a few thousand dollars a year, including law school, med school, etc.


WHAT? I can remember when I was in first year, tuition alone was $2000 and that didn't include books or all the other fees they ding you with. It only go more expensive each passing year. I highly doubt that all these years later that the cost has gone down. Mind you I went to school in Ontario, not Quebec.
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Post #67 by Craig » Wed May 06, 2015 12:15 pm

BlackRedGold wrote:WHAT? I can remember when I was in first year, tuition alone was $2000 and that didn't include books or all the other fees they ding you with. It only go more expensive each passing year. I highly doubt that all these years later that the cost has gone down. Mind you I went to school in Ontario, not Quebec.


I paid like 8 grand a year. I think CS at Waterloo is 11-12k now. CS and Engineering were always way more expensive than the lesser degrees though.
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Post #68 by BlackRedGold » Wed May 06, 2015 12:52 pm

MP wrote:Focusing on a recorded lecture in perfect English by myself, instead of a classroom setting, would be the only challenge.


It was fucking impossible for me. I took a lot of courses that were offered on tv thinking I could record them and watch whenever. But whenever was usually right before an exam and they'd put me to sleep watching at home. There was one course that was the exception but it was both literally and figuratively a bird course.

These days there is the ability to have a remote audience with two way communication. You could have a prerecorded lecture with the prof monitoring questions and then interrupting to answer them.
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Post #69 by jester » Wed May 06, 2015 12:57 pm

BlackRedGold wrote:These days there is the ability to have a remote audience with two way communication. You could have a prerecorded lecture with the prof monitoring questions and then interrupting to answer them.


This stuff exists, but there are problems with it ... specifically, it kills one of the appeals of online courses for students. That is something of a minor issue--given that interaction is a benefit, obviously--but it impacts enrollment, and that is something less than a minor issue.
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Post #70 by BlackRedGold » Wed May 06, 2015 1:05 pm

jester wrote:This stuff exists, but there are problems with it ... specifically, it kills one of the appeals of online courses for students. That is something of a minor issue--given that interaction is a benefit, obviously--but it impacts enrollment, and that is something less than a minor issue.


Which appeal does it kill?
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Post #71 by jester » Wed May 06, 2015 1:09 pm

BlackRedGold wrote:Which appeal does it kill?


Yeah, left a sentence out there, huh? Flexibility and freedom ... the problem with two-way is that it forces students to be online at time X. Well, what if you have work then? What if you want to go out a given night? This is why message boards are often the primary means of direct communication, but everyone hates that.
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Post #72 by BlackRedGold » Wed May 06, 2015 1:16 pm

jester wrote:Yeah, left a sentence out there, huh? Flexibility and freedom ... the problem with two-way is that it forces students to be online at time X. Well, what if you have work then? What if you want to go out a given night? This is why message boards are often the primary means of direct communication, but everyone hates that.


There's nothing stopping all of the above from happening. A lecture airing live with two way communication that is available after the fact and supplemented with a (possibly video) message board.
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Post #73 by jester » Wed May 06, 2015 2:57 pm

BlackRedGold wrote:There's nothing stopping all of the above from happening. A lecture airing live with two way communication that is available after the fact and supplemented with a (possibly video) message board.


That'll be a peach to teach.
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Post #74 by Dog » Wed May 06, 2015 4:34 pm

Craig wrote:I paid like 8 grand a year. I think CS at Waterloo is 11-12k now. CS and Engineering were always way more expensive than the lesser degrees though.


I paid 2K a year for a law degree that got me into Oxford with a scholarship and offers from many of the biggest law firms.

I actually saved money during my law degree from part time work.

I LOVE QUEBEC!
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Post #75 by Craig » Wed May 06, 2015 5:17 pm

Dog wrote:I paid 2K a year for a law degree that got me into Oxford with a scholarship and offers from many of the biggest law firms.

I actually saved money during my law degree from part time work.

I LOVE QUEBEC!


I was in a coop program that almost paid for itself and came with the job offers and whatnot too. Same basic result, I just spent an extra 8 months in school and never got a summer off. :why:
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Post #76 by Dog » Wed May 06, 2015 5:36 pm

Craig wrote:I was in a coop program that almost paid for itself and came with the job offers and whatnot too. Same basic result, I just spent an extra 8 months in school and never got a summer off. :why:


That's ok. I mostly worked as security in a prison and bank transaction clearing guy during the summer in uni. I used to work crazy amounts during school (full time+ in summer and a good 20-30 hours during school year) for no obvious reason.
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Post #77 by BlackRedGold » Wed May 06, 2015 5:43 pm

Dog wrote:I paid 2K a year for a law degree that got me into Oxford with a scholarship and offers from many of the biggest law firms.

I actually saved money during my law degree from part time work.

I LOVE QUEBEC!


Shouldn't you instead be loving the have provinces that were the ones that actually paid for your tuiton through equalization? :beaker2:
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Post #78 by Dog » Wed May 06, 2015 5:59 pm

I have alot of love to give.

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