Paris

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses
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Re: Paris

Post #101 by Craig » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:29 pm

embracedbias wrote:
Craig wrote:EB is going to have to carry around a calculus textbook for like a week.


I .. don't get it.


To hide your raging hard-on, because sheep will flock to your hate of Islam.
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Re: Paris

Post #102 by Mufasa » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:29 pm

"Hey man! In the time of califate i was fucking a different woman everyday, i had slaves, i didn't have to put up with those foreigners, Kurds, Yazidis or Christians, i'd just gun them. I had food everyday, i didn't need to work, i just had to hang out with the boys and ride my Jeep around town, i was paid to be on facebook... I miss those days"
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Re: Paris

Post #103 by Whit Dickman » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:32 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:Already seeing plenty of common ground between conservatives and liberals in the media about "the muslim problem", which is being singled out by some voices as the root cause of the attack.

Bill Maher invites Asra Nomani (the useful dark-skinned mouthpiece for imperialism) to his show where they both immediately agree that Islam is the problem. Breitbart news picks up the story immediately.


criticism of these people relies on whether the words in bold were actually used

People on the right certainly use "the" instead of "a". Many on the left take the opposite extreme and argue that it has nothing to do with religion. Both are wrong
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Re: Paris

Post #104 by Whit Dickman » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:34 pm

Craig wrote:
embracedbias wrote:
Craig wrote:EB is going to have to carry around a calculus textbook for like a week.


I .. don't get it.


To hide your raging hard-on, because sheep will flock to your hate of Islam.


I hate irrationality, but it doesn't give me a boner. As evidenced by my currently flaccid penis.
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Re: Paris

Post #105 by Dr_Chimera » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:48 pm

embracedbias wrote:criticism of these people relies on whether the words in bold were actually used


Actually eb people who scan headlines and mediated conversations do not carefully peruse the words; they remember the ways in which the middle eastern otherness is presented to them.
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Re: Paris

Post #106 by AD » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:49 pm

Pics or shut up.

Edit: I was obviously talking to EB about his penis.
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Re: Paris

Post #107 by Craig » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:02 pm

Obviously.
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Re: Paris

Post #108 by vf » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:03 pm

embracedbias wrote:
Dr_Chimera wrote:Already seeing plenty of common ground between conservatives and liberals in the media about "the muslim problem", which is being singled out by some voices as the root cause of the attack.

Bill Maher invites Asra Nomani (the useful dark-skinned mouthpiece for imperialism) to his show where they both immediately agree that Islam is the problem. Breitbart news picks up the story immediately.


criticism of these people relies on whether the words in bold were actually used

People on the right certainly use "the" instead of "a". Many on the left take the opposite extreme and argue that it has nothing to do with religion. Both are wrong


Am I the only one having a hard time noticing bold anymore?
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Re: Paris

Post #109 by PredsFan77 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:10 pm

Mufasa wrote:So yeah, there was a Syrian refugee among the attackers.


the spin from both sides on this are going to be incredible
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Re: Paris

Post #110 by Mufasa » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:21 pm

PredsFan77 wrote:
Mufasa wrote:So yeah, there was a Syrian refugee among the attackers.


the spin from both sides on this are going to be incredible


Worst news since the body count.
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Re: Paris

Post #111 by edgar_dong » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:18 pm

embracedbias wrote:Syrian passport found on Paris attacker's body belonged to refugee who passed through Greece


Did he have crack sprinkled on him, too? :donger:
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Re: Paris

Post #112 by Slick Nick » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:29 pm

Mufasa wrote:Probleme with ISIS, is that they are now eternal, even if you take back the land, they will be millions roaring the desert and facebook, ready to try another califate and make attacks in the west. I'd still prefer if we could take back the land from them.


I believe the ideology part is overblown. Cut the money lines and ISIS curmbles in a matter of weeks... Quit bying ISIS oil, quit supplying radicals with money, guns and intel... very few fight for an idea, no one goes to war on an empty stomach.
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Re: Paris

Post #113 by Dr_Chimera » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:30 pm

From 2010: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/d ... st-funding

Saudi Arabia is the world's largest source of funds for Islamist militant groups such as the Afghan Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba – but the Saudi government is reluctant to stem the flow of money, according to Hillary Clinton. "More needs to be done since Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups," says a secret December 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state. Her memo urged US diplomats to redouble their efforts to stop Gulf money reaching extremists in Pakistan and Afghanistan. "Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide," she said. Three other Arab countries are listed as sources of militant money: Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates. The cables highlight an often ignored factor in the Pakistani and Afghan conflicts: that the violence is partly bankrolled by rich, conservative donors across the Arabian Sea whose governments do little to stop them. The problem is particularly acute in Saudi Arabia, where militants soliciting funds slip into the country disguised as holy pilgrims, set up front companies to launder funds and receive money from government-sanctioned charities.
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Re: Paris

Post #114 by Slick Nick » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:31 pm

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Re: Paris

Post #115 by Dr_Chimera » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:35 pm



Was not the West so did not matter.
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Re: Paris

Post #116 by Slick Nick » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:38 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:From 2010: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/d ... st-funding

Saudi Arabia is the world's largest source of funds for Islamist militant groups such as the Afghan Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba – but the Saudi government is reluctant to stem the flow of money, according to Hillary Clinton. "More needs to be done since Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups," says a secret December 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state. Her memo urged US diplomats to redouble their efforts to stop Gulf money reaching extremists in Pakistan and Afghanistan. "Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide," she said. Three other Arab countries are listed as sources of militant money: Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates. The cables highlight an often ignored factor in the Pakistani and Afghan conflicts: that the violence is partly bankrolled by rich, conservative donors across the Arabian Sea whose governments do little to stop them. The problem is particularly acute in Saudi Arabia, where militants soliciting funds slip into the country disguised as holy pilgrims, set up front companies to launder funds and receive money from government-sanctioned charities.



Image

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Re: Paris

Post #117 by Slick Nick » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:49 pm

Image
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Re: Paris

Post #118 by Dog » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:18 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/665543788408926209

Was not the West so did not matter.


I did not hear of Beirut until I came accross a referrence this afternoon. I had to google it to find out what happened. I've been watching plenty of news since yesterday. Never heard a word of it. Not a single word. That is absolutely incredible. How can they be so crass! I can understand that they don't receive equal treatment, but no mention? It's sickening.
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Re: Paris

Post #119 by Retarder S » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:25 pm

#JeSuisBeirut










#livelovelaugh<3
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Re: Paris

Post #120 by Retarder S » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:27 pm

Mufasa wrote:Probleme with ISIS, is that they are now eternal, even if you take back the land, they will be millions roaring the desert and facebook, ready to try another califate and make attacks in the west. I'd still prefer if we could take back the land from them.


Let's wipe out all of humanity just to be sure.
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Re: Paris

Post #121 by Slick Nick » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:36 pm

Dog wrote:
Dr_Chimera wrote:https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/665543788408926209

Was not the West so did not matter.


I did not hear of Beirut until I came accross a referrence this afternoon. I had to google it to find out what happened. I've been watching plenty of news since yesterday. Never heard a word of it. Not a single word. That is absolutely incredible. How can they be so crass! I can understand that they don't receive equal treatment, but no mention? It's sickening.


https://www.rt.com/news/321723-lebanon- ... de-killed/

:crossarms:
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Re: Paris

Post #122 by Dog » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:44 pm



I don't believe a word of it.

:crossarms:
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Re: Paris

Post #123 by senate » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:04 am

Mufasa wrote:Probleme with ISIS, is that they are now eternal, even if you take back the land, they will be millions roaring the desert and facebook, ready to try another califate and make attacks in the west. I'd still prefer if we could take back the land from them.


The battles against communist revolutionaries, fascists, and anarchists (the turn of the 20th century kind, not the current kind that aspires to breaking McDonald's windows at G7 summits) seemed hopeless too, but both those movements petered out. It is a lot easier to die for a movement than it is to dedicate a lifetime to it.
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Re: Paris

Post #124 by Sturminator » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:42 am

embracedbias wrote:
Sturminator wrote:
embracedbias wrote:So what can liberal nations do? The war is over those Muslims who are stuck between western secular ideals and an identification with their faith and brethren. Maybe it's time we acknowledge that this is indeed a dilemma for many Muslims.

Addressing the soul-crushing poverty and exclusion from which many Algerians in France suffer with something other than symbolic burqa bans and talk of "cleaning out the banlieus" might be a step in the right direction, as well. A big part of the reason Germany's Turkish population is vastly less radicalized than the French Algerians is simply that they have a higher standard of living.

do we know that hey were Algerian? Or are you just talking more generally?

There is a good reason why, among western countries, La France has supplied a grossly disproportionate number of jihadists who have gone to fight in Syria. Whether the actual perps in this attack were French Algerians or not, France is home to a network of radicalized Muslims that is far more virulent than that of neighboring countries (though I gather Belgium has serious problems, as well). There are obviously many specific differences between French Algerians and German Turks which may contribute to radicalization, but the socioeconomic contrast is easy to identify and address. The French government can't fix the history of violence between the populations going back to the colonial period, but it can address the shit-spewing toilets in the banlieus.
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Re: Paris

Post #125 by Sturminator » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:49 am

Mufasa wrote:
Sturminator wrote:
embracedbias wrote:So what can liberal nations do? The war is over those Muslims who are stuck between western secular ideals and an identification with their faith and brethren. Maybe it's time we acknowledge that this is indeed a dilemma for many Muslims.

Addressing the soul-crushing poverty and exclusion from which many Algerians in France suffer with something other than symbolic burqa bans and talk of "cleaning out the banlieus" might be a step in the right direction, as well. A big part of the reason Germany's Turkish population is vastly less radicalized than the French Algerians is simply that they have a higher standard of living.


Turkish people have higher standards of living than algérien, wherever they are.

Most of the Turks who immigrated to Germany in the 1950's came from lower-buttfuck Asia Minor - the parts of the country which are now either Kurdish territory, or strongly in favor of Islamist parties. The well-to-do, European Turks from Istanbul and the coast weren't the ones who thought their lives would be improved slaving in Volkswagen factories.
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Re: Paris

Post #126 by Sturminator » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:27 am

Mufasa wrote:Probleme with ISIS, is that they are now eternal, even if you take back the land, they will be millions roaring the desert and facebook, ready to try another califate and make attacks in the west. I'd still prefer if we could take back the land from them.

They're not magical, Mumu.

As it is in sport, everybody loves a winner. Their time in the sun will pass.
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Re: Paris

Post #127 by Dr_Chimera » Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:21 pm

The French are losing their shit.

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Re: Paris

Post #128 by Sturminator » Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:25 pm

It is important to note here that dempsey foreshadowed this attack years ago in his original Broads Shadow President campaign...right down to the kaleshnikovs and the sporting event, if I recall correctly. Which deity cursed you with this power, k?
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Re: Paris

Post #129 by edgar_dong » Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:44 pm

Hope you are well, 'sey_k.
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Re: Paris

Post #130 by Retarder S » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:04 pm

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Re: Paris

Post #131 by Dr_Chimera » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:07 pm

The French are bombing Isis now. Hope they are feeling a little better.
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Re: Paris

Post #132 by PredsFan77 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:24 pm

Retarder S wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JABOZpoBYQE



I'm more partial to:

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Re: Paris

Post #133 by Dr_Chimera » Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:45 pm

Oh, humanity.

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Re: Paris

Post #134 by Retarder S » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:03 pm

O'lerd
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Re: Paris

Post #135 by Boring Choice #2 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:15 pm

Slick Nick wrote:Image


i'm a little late on this, but the only conclusion i can come to from this graph is that eventually these people tire of living in paris and move to london.
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Re: Paris

Post #136 by Mufasa » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:43 pm

You need to be young to live in Paris, if you can't outrun the Arabs you won't live for long.
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Re: Paris

Post #137 by Whit Dickman » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:29 pm

Dr_Chimera wrote:From 2010: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/d ... st-funding

Saudi Arabia is the world's largest source of funds for Islamist militant groups such as the Afghan Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba – but the Saudi government is reluctant to stem the flow of money, according to Hillary Clinton. "More needs to be done since Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups," says a secret December 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state. Her memo urged US diplomats to redouble their efforts to stop Gulf money reaching extremists in Pakistan and Afghanistan. "Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide," she said. Three other Arab countries are listed as sources of militant money: Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates. The cables highlight an often ignored factor in the Pakistani and Afghan conflicts: that the violence is partly bankrolled by rich, conservative donors across the Arabian Sea whose governments do little to stop them. The problem is particularly acute in Saudi Arabia, where militants soliciting funds slip into the country disguised as holy pilgrims, set up front companies to launder funds and receive money from government-sanctioned charities.


I wonder what motivates Saudis to donate money.
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Re: Paris

Post #138 by Dr_Chimera » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:39 pm

embracedbias wrote:
Dr_Chimera wrote:From 2010: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/d ... st-funding

Saudi Arabia is the world's largest source of funds for Islamist militant groups such as the Afghan Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba – but the Saudi government is reluctant to stem the flow of money, according to Hillary Clinton. "More needs to be done since Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups," says a secret December 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state. Her memo urged US diplomats to redouble their efforts to stop Gulf money reaching extremists in Pakistan and Afghanistan. "Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide," she said. Three other Arab countries are listed as sources of militant money: Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates. The cables highlight an often ignored factor in the Pakistani and Afghan conflicts: that the violence is partly bankrolled by rich, conservative donors across the Arabian Sea whose governments do little to stop them. The problem is particularly acute in Saudi Arabia, where militants soliciting funds slip into the country disguised as holy pilgrims, set up front companies to launder funds and receive money from government-sanctioned charities.


I wonder what motivates Saudis to donate money.


I don't think it's necessarily "the Saudis" as a monolithic thing, but rather (edit: rich fucks) with particular sympathies in the context of complete lack of oversight.
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Re: Paris

Post #139 by Whit Dickman » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:46 pm

Okay, fair enough. I do wonder about the root of the particular sympathies, as you put it. Any thoughts? Seems a crucial issue. Haven't seen it discussed much
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Re: Paris

Post #140 by Retarder S » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:51 pm

Mufasa wrote:You need to be young to live in Paris, if you can't outrun the Arabs you won't live for long.


:donger:


Fucking Craig
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Re: Paris

Post #141 by PredsFan77 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:52 pm

Qatar wants that pipeline to europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline
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Re: Paris

Post #142 by Slick Nick » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:08 am

In my view it has more to do with geopolitics and geoeconomics. The mujahideen are basicaly Gulf states Blackwater, a bunch of contractants that will serve political ot economical interests of SA and Qatar.. like let's say Qatar plans to build a pipeline to flood europe with natural gas and Assad is in the way, jihadis pop up out of nowhere all at once. States are reluctant to go at war nowadays, see Russia in Ukraine, it's much easier to do so through volounteers. Then some of them lose their shit actually believe in the 72 virgins tales and blow up some degenerates in Paris. Then again who knows, probably no one outside of the upper levels of intel agencies.

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Re: Paris

Post #143 by Dr_Chimera » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:29 am

embracedbias wrote:Okay, fair enough. I do wonder about the root of the particular sympathies, as you put it. Any thoughts? Seems a crucial issue. Haven't seen it discussed much


A bit about this here.

http://carnegieendowment.org/syriaincrisis/?fa=54011
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Re: Paris

Post #144 by Bernie Bernbaum » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:50 am

Slick Nick wrote:
Dog wrote:
Retarder S wrote:Apparently it's 16% of muslims, not 16% of the entire France population.


Fucken Russians.


Image

The poll was conducted by ICM Unlimited for Rossiya Segodnya

ICM Unlimited
Creston House 10 Great Pulteney Street
London W1F 9NB

Now unless they bribed them into making that poll in 2014...

For that poll to be accurate, every Muslim in France would need to have a popular opinion of ISIS. Oh, and then also an equal number of non-Muslims, since Muslims only make up 5-10% of the French population. I don't know enough about Rossiya Segodnya to call them a complete joke, but that poll clearly is.
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Re: Paris

Post #145 by Bernie Bernbaum » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:53 am

Re-reading, I see EB covered this a while ago, but that's a truly egregious error, so I'ma leave my post.
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Re: Paris

Post #146 by Bernie Bernbaum » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:56 am

The Social Assassin wrote:
Slick Nick wrote:Either the french are terrible at integrating people or the people don't want to integrate.. probably a bit of both.


Ever been to France? If you don't speak French, they couldn't give a shit about you. Honestly, surprised they don't have this happen more often. They are awful.

I was in Paris a month ago, speak terrible French, and was treated kindly by almost everyone I interacted with.
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Re: Paris

Post #147 by Balki Bartokomous » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:08 am

Bernie Bernbaum wrote:
The Social Assassin wrote:
Slick Nick wrote:Either the french are terrible at integrating people or the people don't want to integrate.. probably a bit of both.


Ever been to France? If you don't speak French, they couldn't give a shit about you. Honestly, surprised they don't have this happen more often. They are awful.

I was in Paris a month ago, speak terrible French, and was treated kindly by almost everyone I interacted with.


They've changed a lot because of this:

http://jetsettimes.com/2013/06/25/paris-tourism/
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Re: Paris

Post #148 by Bernie Bernbaum » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:12 am

embracedbias wrote:They apparently were attempting to target liberal and progressive parts of Paris. They're trying to provoke a culture war and, to be sure, there is no compatibility between liberalism and Islamism.

So what can liberal nations do? The war is over those Muslims who are stuck between western secular ideals and an identification with their faith and brethren. Maybe it's time we acknowledge that this is indeed a dilemma for many Muslims.

Uh, no. The war (your term, not mine, but I'll indulge you) is over Muslims who are intellectually suspended between violent and non-violent interpretations of their faith, and/or emotionally suspended between rage and relative contentment. It is entirely possible for Muslims to reject western secular ideals without committing, abetting, or encouraging murder and/or torture.
Bernie Bernbaum
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Re: Paris

Post #149 by Bernie Bernbaum » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:19 am

PredsFan77 wrote:
Mufasa wrote:So yeah, there was a Syrian refugee among the attackers.


the spin from both sides on this are going to be incredible

As someone who has supported higher refugee acceptance, I don't know that there's anywhere to spin the fact to. I would point out that:
  • 7 of the 8 attackers found a way to Paris without using the refugee route
  • In humanitarian terms, the overwhelming number of lives at stake needs to be weighed against whether hundreds or thousands of Western lives should by valued so heavily over hundreds of thousands of Syrians

But both those things said, the idea that refugee acceptance does not pose major security risks is cooked.
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Re: Paris

Post #150 by Mufasa » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:31 am

The part I don't get is how did the guy manage to keep his passeport on himself? Was it planned? In what circumstance this idiot thought it was a good idea to keep his id on himself, the rest of the group tried really to erase their traces, but this dude kept his passeport in his pocket? I mean they are all trying really hard to make sure the police would have the hardest time to identify them, save the weird Syrian dude who arrived yesterday?

Pretty sure he made everything necessary in order to keep it intact after the explosion.

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