L'après-Trump

..et d'autres discussions ennuyeuses

What comes after Trump? Is it worse?

This is by far the darkest timeline.
0
No votes
Yes, this just keeps getting worse Boozer.
4
40%
The whole thing will swing back 4-8 years from now, and it'll probably be equally as bad or worse.
1
10%
Shit has gotten really crazy & I imagine there will be a political price to pay for all of this.
4
40%
Things can only get better.
0
No votes
RUSSIA!!!!~!!
1
10%
 
Total votes: 10
User avatar
The Bytown Boozer
Registered Broad
Posts: 1850
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:29 am
Has given rep: 259 times
Received rep: 153 times
Contact:

L'après-Trump

Post #1 by The Bytown Boozer » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:41 am

An honest question.
senate
Registered Broad
Posts: 7446
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:36 am
Has given rep: 255 times
Received rep: 323 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #2 by senate » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:42 am

Stop anthropomorphizing Americans.
User avatar
MP
Registered Broad
Posts: 28478
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:13 pm
Location: :uoıʇɐɔoן
Has given rep: 157 times
Received rep: 360 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #3 by MP » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:56 am

Basically, the longer they put up with this, the more it'll become the norm.
User avatar
Shawnathan Horcoff
Registered Broad
Posts: 37626
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:51 am
Has given rep: 459 times
Received rep: 629 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #4 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:51 pm

Once they amend the gun laws the angry white children will be cured, and all will be well again. : )
Also, let's keep this thread about Galchenyuk's on-ice performance, development and value and NOT bring in his personal life or race.
User avatar
Dr_Chimera
Registered Broad
Posts: 21601
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:50 pm
Has given rep: 97 times
Received rep: 272 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #5 by Dr_Chimera » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:40 pm

The key question is 'worse for who'?

Or is it 'for whom'?
User avatar
AD
Posts: 68477
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:30 pm
Location: Here
Has given rep: 579 times
Received rep: 634 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #6 by AD » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:43 pm

The only wrong answer in your poll is the ones Titties chose. Obvos.
User avatar
PredsFan77
Posts: 37267
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:53 am
Location: 7 TIME LOUNGE JEOPARDY CHAMP!!!
Has given rep: 123 times
Received rep: 350 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #7 by PredsFan77 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:07 pm

CDX.NA.IG.9









[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
User avatar
chicpea
Registered Broad
Posts: 17527
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:09 pm
Location: lagoons or ditches
Has given rep: 583 times
Received rep: 300 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #8 by chicpea » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:43 am

Dr_Chimera wrote:The key question is 'worse for who'?

Or is it 'for whom'?


Jesus fuck, moreon. It's "For whom is it worse?"
User avatar
Dr_Chimera
Registered Broad
Posts: 21601
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:50 pm
Has given rep: 97 times
Received rep: 272 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #9 by Dr_Chimera » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:45 am

I am sick of this language.
User avatar
TittiesNBeer
Registered Broad
Posts: 4293
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:06 pm
Has given rep: 507 times
Received rep: 291 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #10 by TittiesNBeer » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:11 pm

AD wrote:The only wrong answer in your poll is the ones Titties chose. Obvos.


We all thought shit was bad under W.Bush, Karl Rove and all their acolytes.

So then there was a huge swing to Obama.

Then now we see the swingback and its Trump, which makes W. and crew look good.

I'm thinking we just keep swinging further and further on the extremes.... next pres will be more progressive than obama was, then we swing back and we'll get someone ever crazier than Trump.
User avatar
AD
Posts: 68477
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:30 pm
Location: Here
Has given rep: 579 times
Received rep: 634 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #11 by AD » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:33 pm

Like I said.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 56649
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1545 times
Received rep: 1056 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #12 by Dog » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:56 pm

Long term trends are impossible to predict, you idiots.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 56649
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1545 times
Received rep: 1056 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #13 by Dog » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:02 pm

And I wouldn’t call the Trump admin worse than the GW Bush admin. Neocons fucked the world good with the Iraq war.
User avatar
chicpea
Registered Broad
Posts: 17527
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:09 pm
Location: lagoons or ditches
Has given rep: 583 times
Received rep: 300 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #14 by chicpea » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:22 pm

Dog wrote:And I wouldn’t call the Trump admin worse than the GW Bush admin. Neocons fucked the world good with the Iraq war.


It has been one year. One year. One year of non-stop carnival.
User avatar
AD
Posts: 68477
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:30 pm
Location: Here
Has given rep: 579 times
Received rep: 634 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #15 by AD » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:26 pm

Gotta disagree with Dog.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 56649
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1545 times
Received rep: 1056 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #16 by Dog » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:39 pm

chicpea wrote:
Dog wrote:And I wouldn’t call the Trump admin worse than the GW Bush admin. Neocons fucked the world good with the Iraq war.


It has been one year. One year. One year of non-stop carnival.


Sure. It’s been chaos and it’s been folly, so far thought nothing nearly as impactful on world affairs as what the neocons did.
User avatar
Craig
Registered Broad
Posts: 39137
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Toronto
Has given rep: 39 times
Received rep: 345 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #17 by Craig » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:40 pm

Yeah, so far Trump is too incompetent to kill as many people as Bush. I'm with dog.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 56649
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1545 times
Received rep: 1056 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #18 by Dog » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:42 pm

Craig wrote:Yeah, so far Trump is too incompetent to kill as many people as Bush. I'm with dog.


People killed, region in chaos, migrant crisis. It’s not all on the Iraq war, middle-east demographics probably bears as much blame, but the Iraq war is a prime contributor.
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17461
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 9 times
Received rep: 94 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #19 by jester » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:17 pm

Dog wrote:And I wouldn’t call the Trump admin worse than the GW Bush admin. Neocons fucked the world good with the Iraq war.


W admin was a disaster, but it was also defined by 9/11. His time in office was not what he expected. Trump has been a gong show without a similar crisis.
User avatar
AD
Posts: 68477
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:30 pm
Location: Here
Has given rep: 579 times
Received rep: 634 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #20 by AD » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:31 am

As usual, Craig and and Dog underestimate the long term impact of this administration on the weakening of the very fabric of democratic institutions and liberal ideals.
User avatar
PredsFan77
Posts: 37267
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:53 am
Location: 7 TIME LOUNGE JEOPARDY CHAMP!!!
Has given rep: 123 times
Received rep: 350 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #21 by PredsFan77 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:55 am

thats just like your opinion, man
CDX.NA.IG.9



















[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
User avatar
Craig
Registered Broad
Posts: 39137
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Toronto
Has given rep: 39 times
Received rep: 345 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #22 by Craig » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:16 am

AD wrote:As usual, Craig and and Dog underestimate the long term impact of this administration on the weakening of the very fabric of democratic institutions and liberal ideals.


Bush passed the Patriot act and established the precedent for the president using executive orders to do whatever the fuck he wants.

The Republican party have been trampling those ideals so hard and for so long, it's part of the reason a guy like Trump can be successful. The only real difference with Trump is he does it so blatantly and clumsily that he actually gets push back. There real culprits in this area are Congress though, who have consistently been unable or unwilling to punish those who do these things.
User avatar
AD
Posts: 68477
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:30 pm
Location: Here
Has given rep: 579 times
Received rep: 634 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #23 by AD » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:30 am

It's the ethos Craig. It's the mainstream nature of these attacks by Trump.

Even the Pubs don't like this.
User avatar
clawfirst
Registered Broad
Posts: 40023
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:45 pm
Has given rep: 270 times
Received rep: 452 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #24 by clawfirst » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:37 am

The Rock vrs Stone Cold race for presidency in 2021 is going to be epic
User avatar
Craig
Registered Broad
Posts: 39137
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Toronto
Has given rep: 39 times
Received rep: 345 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #25 by Craig » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:19 pm

AD wrote:It's the ethos Craig. It's the mainstream nature of these attacks by Trump.

Even the Pubs don't like this.


That's what I mean. Bush did a lot of the same stuff, just quietly and efficiently. Trump runs his mouth, which upsets people more but accomplishes less.

If there Pubs don't like it, they can impeach him. It's entirely on them.
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17461
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 9 times
Received rep: 94 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #26 by jester » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:31 pm

Craig wrote:
AD wrote:It's the ethos Craig. It's the mainstream nature of these attacks by Trump.

Even the Pubs don't like this.


That's what I mean. Bush did a lot of the same stuff, just quietly and efficiently. Trump runs his mouth, which upsets people more but accomplishes less.

If there Pubs don't like it, they can impeach him. It's entirely on them.


Not sure this is fair to Bush. He was a terrible POTUS, but not a transformative one with regards to political norms and culture. He certainly was POTUS during a period of time where the GOP became increasingly partisan and unwilling to compromise, but that had begun in response to Clinton and escalated under Obama.
User avatar
Craig
Registered Broad
Posts: 39137
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Toronto
Has given rep: 39 times
Received rep: 345 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #27 by Craig » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:54 pm

Bush is the guy who decided a president doesn't need to talk to press, and can rule by edict through executive orders if Congress doesn't do what he wants. What else do you need?
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17461
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 9 times
Received rep: 94 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #28 by jester » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:37 pm

Craig wrote:Bush is the guy who decided a president doesn't need to talk to press, and can rule by edict through executive orders if Congress doesn't do what he wants. What else do you need?


The President doesn't need to talk to press. They do so for political reasons, not because there is some hard and fast rule. Prior to the mid 20th c. there was very little direct interaction, and nothing like the press secretary briefings.

FDR issued 3,728 executive orders (and attempted to pack the courts!). Bill Clinton issued 364. Bush? 291.

He was a bad president, but he wasn't abnormal.
User avatar
AD
Posts: 68477
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:30 pm
Location: Here
Has given rep: 579 times
Received rep: 634 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #29 by AD » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:10 pm

Bush did not condone popular revolt against the courts, the media and rule of law nor did any of his administration openly espouse xenophobia, racism and protectionism.

That administration was bad. But it wasn't "ok now I actually have to get easily defensible land" bad.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 56649
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1545 times
Received rep: 1056 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #30 by Dog » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:47 pm

I think we are talking about different things. Impact on governance and democratic institutions and impact on world affairs. I’m don’t have much difficulty conceding that Trump has been worst on the former, but believe the Iraq war has had by far a greater impact on the world than anything Trump has done. I don’t see the Iraq war as a consequence of 9/11. It’s a consequence of neocon ideology. The ideology in power under GW Bush.
User avatar
AD
Posts: 68477
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:30 pm
Location: Here
Has given rep: 579 times
Received rep: 634 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #31 by AD » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:07 pm

Trump, on the foreign affairs side, has single handedly legitimized Russia, Turkey, Iran, North Korea and Saudi Arabia as actual players in world affairs (each in a sphere) when the last 5 presidents before that has succeeded in marginalizing them when the US would intervene.

He has also just handed China the mantle of world governance instead of slowing that process in any way.
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17461
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 9 times
Received rep: 94 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #32 by jester » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:33 pm

AD wrote:Trump, on the foreign affairs side, has single handedly legitimized Russia, Turkey, Iran, North Korea and Saudi Arabia as actual players in world affairs (each in a sphere) when the last 5 presidents before that has succeeded in marginalizing them when the US would intervene.

He has also just handed China the mantle of world governance instead of slowing that process in any way.


What's happening in Asia right now may define the 21st century geopolitical landscape. Of course, Trump is not alone on that one. Bernie was equally stupid, and helped normalize Trump on that front.
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17461
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 9 times
Received rep: 94 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #33 by jester » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:36 pm

Dog wrote:I think we are talking about different things. Impact on governance and democratic institutions and impact on world affairs. I’m don’t have much difficulty conceding that Trump has been worst on the former, but believe the Iraq war has had by far a greater impact on the world than anything Trump has done. I don’t see the Iraq war as a consequence of 9/11. It’s a consequence of neocon ideology. The ideology in power under GW Bush.


Without 9/11, the Iraq War does not happen. Full stop. Obviously, Bush had multiple people in his admin with an axe to grind on Iraq, but there is no way he gets the necessary support to embark on that conflict without 9/11.

It's important to remember that the Bush that ran for office emphasized domestic policy, "compassionate conservatism," etc. His term in office is a text book case of the best laid plans of mice and men.
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 56649
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1545 times
Received rep: 1056 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #34 by Dog » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:44 pm

I’ve always understood 9/11 as the opportunity for neocons to carry out their ideology (to basically use military power to ‘americanize’ the world), not as an event that shaped the ideology.
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17461
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 9 times
Received rep: 94 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #35 by jester » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:50 pm

Dog wrote:I’ve always understood 9/11 as the opportunity for neocons to carry out their ideology (to basically use military power to ‘americanize’ the world), not as an event that shaped the ideology.


Sure, but he still needed legislative backing (and public support) and they aren't all neoconservatives.
User avatar
PredsFan77
Posts: 37267
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:53 am
Location: 7 TIME LOUNGE JEOPARDY CHAMP!!!
Has given rep: 123 times
Received rep: 350 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #36 by PredsFan77 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:01 am

CDX.NA.IG.9



















[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 56649
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1545 times
Received rep: 1056 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #37 by Dog » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:48 am

jester wrote:
Dog wrote:I’ve always understood 9/11 as the opportunity for neocons to carry out their ideology (to basically use military power to ‘americanize’ the world), not as an event that shaped the ideology.


Sure, but he still needed legislative backing (and public support) and they aren't all neoconservatives.


I’m not sure I follow the point. Neocons had a specific ideology. They held very large sway during GW Bush’s first term. They used an extraordinarily opportunity to quickly advance their agenda. It was catastrophic. Why does this somehow ‘disqualify’ the Iraq war as due to neocons in office?

An admin should be judged by the way it reacts to major events. But we’re not evenntalking about that. We’re talking about an event permitting an administration to enact its agenda. We’re basically saying they needed ‘favorable’ conditions to carry out their agenda. How/why would that excuse them?
User avatar
jester
Registered Broad
Posts: 17461
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:38 pm
Has given rep: 9 times
Received rep: 94 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #38 by jester » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:13 am

Dog wrote:
jester wrote:
Dog wrote:I’ve always understood 9/11 as the opportunity for neocons to carry out their ideology (to basically use military power to ‘americanize’ the world), not as an event that shaped the ideology.


Sure, but he still needed legislative backing (and public support) and they aren't all neoconservatives.


I’m not sure I follow the point. Neocons had a specific ideology. They held very large sway during GW Bush’s first term. They used an extraordinarily opportunity to quickly advance their agenda. It was catastrophic. Why does this somehow ‘disqualify’ the Iraq war as due to neocons in office?

An admin should be judged by the way it reacts to major events. But we’re not evenntalking about that. We’re talking about an event permitting an administration to enact its agenda. We’re basically saying they needed ‘favorable’ conditions to carry out their agenda. How/why would that excuse them?


9/11 *empowered* those actors. And, yes, an admin should be judged on how it responds to an event, but the reaction to 9/11 was pervasive across the political spectrum. Without 9/11, the Iraq War doesn't happen. Without 9/11, the Patriot Act, etc. doesn't happen. It's fine to say they handled it poorly, but the response to 9/11 was widespread political hysteria and paranoia. It's a hinge of immense importance and influence.
User avatar
PredsFan77
Posts: 37267
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:53 am
Location: 7 TIME LOUNGE JEOPARDY CHAMP!!!
Has given rep: 123 times
Received rep: 350 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #39 by PredsFan77 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:28 am

CDX.NA.IG.9



















[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]
User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 56649
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1545 times
Received rep: 1056 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #40 by Dog » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:54 am

wut?
User avatar
MP
Registered Broad
Posts: 28478
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:13 pm
Location: :uoıʇɐɔoן
Has given rep: 157 times
Received rep: 360 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #41 by MP » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:11 am

I think it's pretty ckear the artist is saying NASCAR was behind 9-11.
senate
Registered Broad
Posts: 7446
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:36 am
Has given rep: 255 times
Received rep: 323 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #42 by senate » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:44 pm

Dog wrote:wut?


User avatar
Dog
Registered Broad
Posts: 56649
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm
Has given rep: 1545 times
Received rep: 1056 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #43 by Dog » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:46 pm

:why:
User avatar
clawfirst
Registered Broad
Posts: 40023
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:45 pm
Has given rep: 270 times
Received rep: 452 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #44 by clawfirst » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:14 pm

Cleaning a flag with a rag is the most perfect symbolism for the murrican idiocy that is politics.
User avatar
PredsFan77
Posts: 37267
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:53 am
Location: 7 TIME LOUNGE JEOPARDY CHAMP!!!
Has given rep: 123 times
Received rep: 350 times

Re: L'après-Trump

Post #45 by PredsFan77 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:34 pm

Dog wrote:wut?


CDX.NA.IG.9



















[LEFT]Image[/LEFT]

Return to “Le mur de messages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest