Non-Retro Video Game Thread

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Post #151 by jester » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:34 am

HS wrote:Here's the thing though. I've played FPS on consoles for years. Starting with Halo, moving up to COD4. Now I play on PC. Guess which one I think is harder?


I used to play on PC... now I play on console, because I don't care enough to invest in a gaming PC. Which controller setup is clearly more difficult to use? I used to snipe all the time on PC, don't even bother to really try with a console controller.

What may be true is the following: The cost of entry for PC gaming means that you have less "casual" gamers in the population, and that means you have less weak players to take advantage of. I bought the same argument in XBOX v. PS3 arguments because XBOX users had to pay to play online, whereas with PS3 anyone who owned the game could randomly show up at any time.

That, however, is very different from what you are suggesting, and this idea that mouse/keyboard is far more difficult is... honestly, you're the first person that plays a lot of FPS that I have ever seen make that argument. One of the primary arguments for transitioning to PC gaming is how much better it is to play with mouse/keyboard. There was a huge kerfuffle in the COD community a few years back when they came out with the peripheral mouse/keyboard for PS3 (and I think XBOX 360) because it would lead to an unfair advantage for anyone that splurged.
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Post #152 by HS » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:59 pm

jester wrote:I used to play on PC... now I play on console, because I don't care enough to invest in a gaming PC. Which controller setup is clearly more difficult to use? I used to snipe all the time on PC, don't even bother to really try with a console controller.

What may be true is the following: The cost of entry for PC gaming means that you have less "casual" gamers in the population, and that means you have less weak players to take advantage of. I bought the same argument in XBOX v. PS3 arguments because XBOX users had to pay to play online, whereas with PS3 anyone who owned the game could randomly show up at any time.

That, however, is very different from what you are suggesting, and this idea that mouse/keyboard is far more difficult is... honestly, you're the first person that plays a lot of FPS that I have ever seen make that argument. One of the primary arguments for transitioning to PC gaming is how much better it is to play with mouse/keyboard. There was a huge kerfuffle in the COD community a few years back when they came out with the peripheral mouse/keyboard for PS3 (and I think XBOX 360) because it would lead to an unfair advantage for anyone that splurged.


There are many in the gaming community who talk about the steep learning curve it takes to go from a console first person shooter to the PC.

Here's a good example of the learning curve for me. Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4. I can't find my stats for Battlefield Bad Company 2, but I can assure you I was less than 0.50 KDR.

It took me three editions of Battlefield to turn into a competitive player. My skill level compared to other players ranks me in the top 1%. Whether that's something to be proud of, I don't know. I game because it's fun. Anyway, the reality is, the steep learning curve to not only aim, but aim without any assistance mechanic from consoles is going to take the majority of players a very long time. Sure, there's better 'control' of the guns, but it doesn't mean that you're hitting for damage. It just means you're able to orient faster.

There is a huge difference between orientation and accuracy. In addition, the relative skill level between PC players is wider than those on the console. It is much harder to be a good shooter on PC than Console in my opinion.
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Post #153 by jester » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:12 pm

HS, there's a learning curve whenever you make an adjustment... and that learning curve is going to have to do with controls of course. It's also going to have to do with the skill of the folks you are playing against.

However, you are also missing the fundamental point when you say something like this:

Anyway, the reality is, the steep learning curve to not only aim, but aim without any assistance mechanic from consoles is going to take the majority of players a very long time.


Come back to console, and play Killzone--which does not have aim-assist. It's really fucking hard to be precise with controllers as opposed to mouse. The folks that make these games didn't put aim-assist on console out of a desire to dumb down the game, they put it there because the reality is that you cannot get to anything remotely resembling the sensitivity and accuracy of a mouse while using a controller. It was an effort to replicate as much as possible the accuracy of a mouse while playing on console.

If they put aim assist on FPS games on PC, it would be like everyone had a fucking aim-bot. Because pairing the much increased accuracy of a mouse with any stickiness on target would just be flat fucking stupid.

So, by all means argue that playing on PC is harder, but do not do so because of mouse and keyboard... as that argument is stupid. Just like any tournament pitting players using controllers v. mouse/keyboard is fucking stupid. Mouse and keyboard is a better control system, and that's fine. You enjoy playing on it... that's fine. But you're coming off as a fanboy here.
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Post #154 by HS » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:17 pm

jester wrote:HS, there's a learning curve whenever you make an adjustment... and that learning curve is going to have to do with controls of course. It's also going to have to do with the skill of the folks you are playing against.

However, you are also missing the fundamental point when you say something like this:



Come back to console, and play Killzone--which does not have aim-assist. It's really fucking hard to be precise with controllers as opposed to mouse. The folks that make these games didn't put aim-assist on console out of a desire to dumb down the game, they put it there because the reality is that you cannot get to anything remotely resembling the sensitivity and accuracy of a mouse while using a controller. It was an effort to replicate as much as possible the accuracy of a mouse while playing on console.

If they put aim assist on FPS games on PC, it would be like everyone had a fucking aim-bot. Because pairing the much increased accuracy of a mouse with any stickiness on target would just be flat fucking stupid.

So, by all means argue that playing on PC is harder, but do not do so because of mouse and keyboard... as that argument is stupid. Just like any tournament pitting players using controllers v. mouse/keyboard is fucking stupid. Mouse and keyboard is a better control system, and that's fine. You enjoy playing on it... that's fine. But you're coming off as a fanboy here.


I said the relative skill level of PC players is wider than it is on console. I don't know why you're ignoring that point, but defend the consoles all you want.
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Post #155 by jester » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:33 pm

HS wrote:I said the relative skill level of PC players is wider than it is on console. I don't know why you're ignoring that point, but defend the consoles all you want.


Based on what, your perception? I'm ignoring it because you don't have anything to back it up, and there's a ton of circumstantial evidence that argues against it. Anyone investing the money into a gaming PC is going to be a bit more serious about what they're doing than the kid that got an XBOX for Christmas.

More specifically, I'm not defending the consoles from anything... I'm critiquing your bizarre argument about the difficulties of mouse and keyboard, when it is universally accepted that mouse and keyboard are VASTLY superior to console controllers. Consoles are what they are. They are an entry-level gaming experience in terms of technology, but benefit from having a lower price point (thus a broader player pool), and uniformity is an advantage to developers and, to a certain extent, the playing field for gamers.

You're the one who has some sort of inferiority complex about this, and apparently need to believe that you are playing some higher degree of difficulty. I don't really give a fuck, I just find the mouse and keyboard stuff to be silly. But whatever makes you feel better.
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Post #156 by HS » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:43 pm

Yea, the relative skill level of PC players being far wider than Console players is such a bizarre argument.
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Post #157 by RTWAP » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:28 am

jester wrote:HS, there's a learning curve whenever you make an adjustment... and that learning curve is going to have to do with controls of course. It's also going to have to do with the skill of the folks you are playing against.

However, you are also missing the fundamental point when you say something like this:



Come back to console, and play Killzone--which does not have aim-assist. It's really fucking hard to be precise with controllers as opposed to mouse. The folks that make these games didn't put aim-assist on console out of a desire to dumb down the game, they put it there because the reality is that you cannot get to anything remotely resembling the sensitivity and accuracy of a mouse while using a controller. It was an effort to replicate as much as possible the accuracy of a mouse while playing on console.

If they put aim assist on FPS games on PC, it would be like everyone had a fucking aim-bot. Because pairing the much increased accuracy of a mouse with any stickiness on target would just be flat fucking stupid.

So, by all means argue that playing on PC is harder, but do not do so because of mouse and keyboard... as that argument is stupid. Just like any tournament pitting players using controllers v. mouse/keyboard is fucking stupid. Mouse and keyboard is a better control system, and that's fine. You enjoy playing on it... that's fine. But you're coming off as a fanboy here.


The only game I play that is vaguely like a FPS is World of Tanks. It includes auto-aim for newbies. It's useful, but at a certain point people stop using it. It aims at where a tank is, not where it's going to be when your shell gets there. Also, auto-aim fires at the middle of the tank, which when firing at the front of a tank is a bad plan. Fire for the top of the turret (commanders hatch) or lower glacis, or thinks like the drivers hatch on the front.
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Post #158 by RTWAP » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:23 am

HS wrote:Yea, the relative skill level of PC players being far wider than Console players is such a bizarre argument.


Again for World of Tanks, but some players have 75%+ win rates in random battles, and some have 32%. Considering you're only one tank among 15 on your team and in most battles your tank is not top tier (toughest, hardest hitting, etc.) that's a pretty significant range of player skill levels.
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Post #159 by Ironchef Chris Wok » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:22 am

Retards fill both platforms
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Post #160 by vf » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:37 pm

ITT: HS trolls and everybody falls for it.
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Post #161 by NyQuil » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:47 pm

I find it hard to imagine having the precision with a controller that you can achieve with a mouse keyboard setup.
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Post #162 by IcE ColD » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:50 pm

vf wrote:ITT: HS trolls and everybody falls for it.


Is that the tl;dr version?

If so, thank you.
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Post #163 by jester » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:43 pm

HS wrote:Yea, the relative skill level of PC players being far wider than Console players is such a bizarre argument.


That wasn't the bizarre argument, just one lacking actual support and purely based on conjecture.
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Post #164 by jester » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:55 pm

RTWAP wrote:The only game I play that is vaguely like a FPS is World of Tanks. It includes auto-aim for newbies. It's useful, but at a certain point people stop using it. It aims at where a tank is, not where it's going to be when your shell gets there. Also, auto-aim fires at the middle of the tank, which when firing at the front of a tank is a bad plan. Fire for the top of the turret (commanders hatch) or lower glacis, or thinks like the drivers hatch on the front.


Auto aim absolutely has drawbacks, but the reason for bringing it up was HS' assertion that mouse and keyboard was so difficult, blah blah. It's relatively common in console shooters entirely because it's very difficult to aim with precision (compared to a mouse) using a controller, and they didn't want the game experience to be vastly different from the PC version... this going back to the fact that PC is where FPS games started before transitioning to console.

RTWAP wrote:Again for World of Tanks, but some players have 75%+ win rates in random battles, and some have 32%. Considering you're only one tank among 15 on your team and in most battles your tank is not top tier (toughest, hardest hitting, etc.) that's a pretty significant range of player skill levels.


I've never played World of Tanks, but win% is not necessarily a great indicator of skill. Are these purely lone-wolf lobbies, or can people group up? Regardless of game, if you're lone wolfing it you're going to have a tough time winning consistently against groups. Conversely, it's rather easy as a mediocre player to do well if you're playing with some other warm bodies that know what they're about.

Ironchef Chris Wok wrote:Retards fill both platforms


Of course, but in PC gaming you're going to have far less of the: doofus sitting on the couch with his buddy playing a game that he has no clue what he's doing in. I used to back out of COD Black Ops games immediately if I saw that I had more than one split screen playing... because at least one of the players was always fucking terrible. That's without getting into the price point issue of PC gaming v. console gaming. The cost of a gaming PC is going to weed out a lot of shitty players... just like I think XBOX 360 weeded out a lot of shitty players simply by having a subscription fee v. the PS3 (now there's no difference on that front).

If you're a terrible player just getting your shit pushed in... investing in the hardware to run these PC games is just stupid.
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Post #165 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:11 pm

Should re-name the thread.

"Acrimony lonely in Battlefield thread, forces Battlefield talk among other's who don't share is 2" erection for the game."
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Post #166 by vf » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:13 pm

IcE ColD wrote:Is that the tl;dr version?

If so, thank you.


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Post #167 by HS » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:26 pm

:gary:
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Post #168 by RTWAP » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 pm

jester wrote:I've never played World of Tanks, but win% is not necessarily a great indicator of skill. Are these purely lone-wolf lobbies, or can people group up? Regardless of game, if you're lone wolfing it you're going to have a tough time winning consistently against groups. Conversely, it's rather easy as a mediocre player to do well if you're playing with some other warm bodies that know what they're about.


You can only group up with one or two other people. It's called platooning. And the game ensures equal numbers of platoons on each side in the random battle.
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Post #169 by RTWAP » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:43 pm

jester wrote:I've never played World of Tanks, but win% is not necessarily a great indicator of skill. Are these purely lone-wolf lobbies, or can people group up? Regardless of game, if you're lone wolfing it you're going to have a tough time winning consistently against groups. Conversely, it's rather easy as a mediocre player to do well if you're playing with some other warm bodies that know what they're about.


With completely random opponents, random tank tier (you're either top tier, one lower or two lower, randomly), random maps, random side, random team composition (but balanced between sides), the only thing you have control over is how you play, which is a lot more about strategy than things like driving skill or shooting.

Watching what your team is doing and either reinforcing a push at the right time, leading a stalled push (even dying in the process), stalling the enemy push enough to delay them. There are lots of ways to significantly increase your team's chance of winning. Heck, just driving to a spot, parking in a bush and spotting the enemy tanks can be incredibly rewarding.

I just set a new record for experience in a battle with my favourite tank. I did 3500 damage, I spotted tanks for allies and they did 2800 damage to the enemy tanks, and my tank took no damage from the 560 it has. That was 56% of all the damage on my 15-player random team. The equivalent of a hockey player being involved in 56% of his team's offence.

Interestingly, my highest XP battles (like that one) tend to be when not platooning. Playing with other good players means fewer enemies for me to kill. They die too fast.
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Post #170 by senate » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:22 am

Maybe they should delay it some more.

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Post #171 by senate » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:48 pm

E3 footage versus footage from the current PS4 built.

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Post #172 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:41 am

So they've made it worse?
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Post #173 by senate » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:43 am

The E3 footage was from an ultra-high PC using highly optimized code that could look good for short segments but could never run an entire game.
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Post #174 by Jedrik » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:06 pm

Reminds me of when Nintendo used to put screen shots of the arcade version on the back of NES game boxes.
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Post #175 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:45 pm

senate wrote:The E3 footage was from an ultra-high PC using highly optimized code that could look good for short segments but could never run an entire game.


Well that's depressing
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Post #176 by jester » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:29 pm

[YOUTUBE]4_4v6bEd76s[/YOUTUBE]

Paging dempsey.

This looks kind of awesome if they actually pull it off as they're selling it.
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Post #177 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:49 pm

Dark Souls 2 is fucking awesome. That is all
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Post #178 by jester » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:42 am

Very disappointed it's PS3 only
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Post #179 by Konecny HypeTrain Captain » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:43 am

jester wrote:Very disappointed it's PS3 only


I picked it up on 360. A lot of rumors were going around saying it will eventually be out on next gen consoles and if that's true I will buy it and play it again.
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Post #180 by jester » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:17 am

I wouldn't care, but I just don't really have the space to have my PS3 setup next to my PS4. Of course, I never get around to beating these games as much as I enjoy them.
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Post #181 by IcE ColD » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:07 am

Well, they're announcing Dark Souls 2 on PC for April 25th 2014 on Steam, if PC version could interests you.
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Post #182 by jester » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:30 am

Don't have a gaming PC. Perhaps down the road.
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Post #183 by senate » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:48 am

Good news Canada! Sony has increased the price of the PS4 by $50 to $449 and increased the price of upcoming games to 69.99!
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Post #184 by HS » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:31 pm

IcE ColD wrote:Well, they're announcing Dark Souls 2 on PC for April 25th 2014 on Steam, if PC version could interests you.


Interesting...

I may get it. I actually enjoy playing horror games like Dead Space (still haven't touched the third one, even though it's sitting in my Origin folder), so Dead Souls 2 sounds like it could be right up my alley.
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Post #185 by HS » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:32 pm

jester wrote:Don't have a gaming PC. Perhaps down the road.


Well, if you ever decide to make the switch, let me know. I can help with building a PC.
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Post #186 by jester » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:48 pm

HS wrote:Well, if you ever decide to make the switch, let me know. I can help with building a PC.


Thanks, but have a degree in com sci and have built a couple PCs previously.

As to Dark Souls above, not a horror game. Hard as shit dungeon crawler.
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Post #187 by HS » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:35 pm

19nazzy wrote:I've got 4 GBs of RAM but I want to add 4 more. Here's my current rig setup:
1 x Gigabyte P55-UD4P ATX LGA1156 P55 DDR3 2PCI-E 3PCI-E1 2PCI RAID 2GLAN CrossFireX SLI Motherboard
1 x Intel Core i5 750 Quad Core Processor Lynnfield LGA1156 2.66GHZ 8MB Cache Retail Box
1 x Kingston HyperX KHX1800C8D3K2/4G 4GB 2X2GB DDR3-1800 CL8 Dual Channel Memory Kit

I could use some advice on compatible RAM that I should get.


It doesn't necessarily matter. Depending on how much multitasking you do, you may want to go with a higher frequency -- from the specs on your motherboard, you can go as high as 2,200 mhz in dual channeling mode. I use the Kingston Hyperx Blu 1,333 mhz in dual channel mode for what it's worth. I'm going to upgrade to 1600 mhz, so I'm looking at these: http://pcpartpicker.com/part/kingston-memory-khx16c10b1rk216x

If I decide to OC the RAM, then I need a new motherboard for the 22nm processors.
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Post #188 by HS » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:33 pm

19nazzy wrote:Dumb question but what does changing the frequency do?


Allows your computer to move more data per second when multitasking or playing games. It works in synergy with your CPU.
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Post #189 by senate » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:53 pm

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Post #190 by Zardoz » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:59 am

Steam has 66% of Europa Universalis right now. 15 dollars for the expanded edition.
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Post #191 by HS » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:30 pm

Zardoz wrote:Steam has 66% of Europa Universalis right now. 15 dollars for the expanded edition.


Isn't that game like 10 years old? Lol
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Post #192 by Zardoz » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:42 pm

HS wrote:Isn't that game like 10 years old? Lol


The newest one. You can actually convert games from Crusader Kings 2 into the game files and continue them. Which is kind of awesome if you reformed Norse or something. Basically extends the game from the ninth century to the nineteenth.
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Post #193 by Bernie Bernbaum » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:42 pm

Anyone else play through Burial At Sea for BioShock?
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Post #194 by NyQuil » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:43 pm

Charlie Meadows wrote:Anyone else play through Burial At Sea for BioShock?


I have the Season Pass but my home office is currently being renovated so my machine is unplugged in the corner.
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Post #195 by Bernie Bernbaum » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:42 pm

NyQuil wrote:I have the Season Pass but my home office is currently being renovated so my machine is unplugged in the corner.


When you have the chance, it's definitely worth the eight or so hours. Second part's stronger than the first - not that I found the first disappointing, but the second is more in keeping with the series' tone.
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Post #196 by Haddock » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:31 pm

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Post #197 by vf » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:33 am

Monaco is a pretty damned fun multi player action game.
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.



[SIZE="1"]Recruiting for EHM 05 Online[/size]
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Post #198 by RTWAP » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:08 am

Just started playing Borderlands 2 again. Bought it for a buddy who'd never tried it.

Still lots of fun.
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Post #199 by Pennywise » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:23 pm

I'm MastahShredder9 on Live if you wish to add me.
They all float down here..
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Post #200 by RTWAP » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:31 pm

Shredder wrote:I'm MastahShredder9 on Live if you wish to add me.


What is Live?

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