Homeownership Thread

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Post #151 by Craig » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:07 am

TO wrote:Tankless are not worth the cost especially for people who have natural gas water heaters. Much higher cost + Inferior performance = definite no.


Tankless heaters seem to be about the same price as a new hot water tank and they use 20% or so less power/gas over their lifetime, so wouldn't that make up the costs?

I want one because I want to reclaim a little space in my basement. It won't do me any good until my furnace dies in a good 15 or so years, but still.
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Post #152 by MP » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:07 am

This is a willow:

Image
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Post #153 by TO » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:09 am

Just to compare some of the lower end products MP:

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/rheem-ecosense-tankless-water-heater/902393 - $999.00 (12 year Heat exchanger, 5 year parts and 1 year labour)
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/ge-60-gallon-natural-gas-water-heater-12-yr-warranty-50000-btu/903015 - $684.90 (12 Year Tank & Parts Limited Warranty
Full 1 year In-Home Service Warranty)
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/rheem-ecosense-condensing-tankless-water-heater/996100 $1369.00

Minus the pipe work. Down the road if the prices come down a bit then it may be worth it.
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Post #154 by MP » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:11 am

TO wrote:Just to compare some of the lower end products MP:

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/rheem-ecosense-tankless-water-heater/902393 - $999.00 (12 year Heat exchanger, 5 year parts and 1 year labour)
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/ge-60-gallon-natural-gas-water-heater-12-yr-warranty-50000-btu/903015 - $684.90 (12 Year Tank & Parts Limited Warranty
Full 1 year In-Home Service Warranty)
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/rheem-ecosense-condensing-tankless-water-heater/996100 $1369.00

Minus the pipe work. Down the road if the prices come down a bit then it may be worth it.


The tankless typically have a 20-25 year life, where if you get 15 years on a tank you're doing well.
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Post #155 by TO » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:13 am

Craig wrote:Tankless heaters seem to be about the same price as a new hot water tank and they use 20% or so less power/gas over their lifetime, so wouldn't that make up the costs?

I want one because I want to reclaim a little space in my basement. It won't do me any good until my furnace dies in a good 15 or so years, but still.


That would be a plus for me as well. If you do go through with it post a few prices.
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Post #156 by Craig » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:18 am

TO wrote:That would be a plus for me as well. If you do go through with it post a few prices.


That won't be for several years.
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Post #157 by TO » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:19 am

MP wrote:This is a willow:

Image


I'm wondering if that plant is within the same family. It seems to follow all of the same characteristics and looks similar in the summer.

MP wrote:The tankless typically have a 20-25 year life, where if you get 15 years on a tank you're doing well.


Might want to push that closer to 20.

But as Craig mentioned in 5-7 years: prices will definitely drop, performance improved, probably worth it.
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Post #158 by TO » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:21 am

Big#D wrote:i'm guessing my furnace and water heater are on their relative last legs (house is almost 20 years old and they are original). knock on wood, they'll last a few more years.


Just finished replacing one last sept that was 54 years old and still running.

Image

Big#D wrote:but what kind of difference in pipe installation is there between the gas water heaters and the tankless kind? are there any other differences (someone mentioned once that new furnaces or heaters need different ventilation or something)? space is not really an issue as they are enclosed in a big enough space in our finished basement.


Copper (gas/electric) tankless PVC?

I assume the tankless can be connected via copper as well.
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Post #159 by AD » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:30 am

How much does it cost to install a gaz furnace?

I have 2 heat sources:

1- A thermal pump-heater-air conditioner with two entries to my house (Main floor and 3rd floor)
2- Convect-air wall mounted electrical heaters in every room.

So all electrical. In Quebec that used to be super cheap (electricity literally falling from the sky). But over the last few years, with the price of gaz plumetting, it has become an option to go with natural gaz.
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Post #160 by TO » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:31 am

Big#D wrote: :devildance: that'd be awesome. just in time for the next people to deal with it.


It was dealt with in the final offer ;)


Big#D wrote:current set up is copper with a natural gas tank.


if/when it does ever go, i'll look into it then. i just hope there are no changes to the requirements from 1995 to the time i have to replace it.


I think they mention the PVC/CPVC as an option but I can't see a reason why you couldn't use the existing copper lines.
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Post #161 by TO » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:32 am

4-5K for a gas furnace. Stupid government got rid of that rebate, otherwise it would have been close to half.
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Post #162 by Craig » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:04 pm

How much would installing new pipes be? If it's just a little sink you're talking about you can get a point of use tankless heater for a couple hundred bucks, which ought to be super easy to install.
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Post #163 by AD » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:06 pm

onefatsurfer wrote:Insulating my pipes will do nothing for the water temps because we use the sink only a few times per day. Smaller diameter pipes would work, since I do believe they're fed off of a larger header system.. Not positive since I haven't looked at it much yet. I was strongly considering putting in a 1/2 inch or smaller line straight to the sink, but haven't calculated the time difference and cost yet.


I heard you could also just get a faucet that delivers less water (but I suppose that still means you have to wait forever for the hot water to get there).
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Post #164 by TO » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:09 pm

Probably cheaper to go the direct route.

If its multiple spots then something like this:

Image
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Post #165 by Craig » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:10 pm

TO wrote:Probably cheaper to go the direct route.

If its multiple spots then:

Image


I bet you could hook a beer keg up to one of the cold lines.
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Post #166 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:28 pm

Craig wrote:Hang on, I get to fuck you too?


everything has a price , Craig.
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Post #167 by clawfirst » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:30 pm

TO wrote:Just finished replacing one last sept that was 54 years old and still running.

Image



Copper (gas/electric) tankless PVC?

I assume the tankless can be connected via copper as well.


yes they can and you don't even need a plumber. Hell you can buy shark bite compression fittings (which are super expensive, but nothing compared to a plumber) and diy in the time it takes to hook up a garden hose.
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Post #168 by MP » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:03 pm

onefatsurfer wrote:I have a gigantic lake in my yard from the heavy rain today. Debating raising the yard, installing a yard inlet and drains, or installing a French drain. Raising the yard would necessitate removing our nearly rotten fence, which I can't afford to replace at the moment.


You need to find the natural grade of the nearby land and grade your yard accordingly. However, aerating your lawn might aid in it's ability to absorb some of the water. Also check where your roof water is being discharged.
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Post #169 by TO » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:59 pm

Go with the french drain along with a dry well: http://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-Dry-Well

Unless you want to run an entire system that drains out to the sewers. Sometimes this is the only alternative.

Put one of these in last year to avoid digging an 80 foot trench. Put the pit 25 ft away from the house and 3-4ft deep. Beauty.

I didn't waste money on that drain grate, instead have a pipe directly connected to the downspout, then elbowed directly inside the $9 garage bin full of rocks. Cover with rocks, soil and grass.
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Post #170 by TO » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:15 pm

Another idea is a flowerbed/raingarden/whatever with the spout directed to plants that can handle that much water. It depends on the slope from your house.

Something like this with a bit more effort on the flower selection:

Image

If its just a low patch in a certain area then the flowerbed alone should do the job.
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Post #171 by Shawnathan Horcoff » Thu May 01, 2014 4:50 am

TO wrote:Probably cheaper to go the direct route.

If its multiple spots then something like this:

Image


[CENTER]Image[/CENTER]
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Post #172 by MP » Thu May 01, 2014 9:54 am

onefatsurfer wrote:Pretty sure I'm going to need either the drainage system or to raise the yard. The grading is absolutely atrocious, and I would need probably 20 yards of fill to get it done. That's how big of a puddle we're talking about. My entire yard would be in shambles and the fence would be buried about a foot and a half deep. French drain / drywell would help, but I don't know if it would be enough.


So you are in the low spot of all your neighbours?
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Post #173 by TO » Thu May 01, 2014 10:46 am

onefatsurfer wrote:Not really.. My property is just very poorly graded. There is a big hole in my front yard and another, smaller one in the side


What's the difference between the avg elevation of your property vs the deepest part of this hole?
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Post #174 by MP » Thu May 01, 2014 12:27 pm

onefatsurfer wrote:Not really.. My property is just very poorly graded. There is a big hole in my front yard and another, smaller one in the side


So then you don't need to bring in new, you just need to regrade what you have. I'd suggest 3-5% slope. Just make sure you route the water away from your foundations.
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Post #175 by TO » Thu May 01, 2014 1:11 pm

onefatsurfer wrote:My property is on a bit of a hill. The average grade is probably 2-3 feet higher, but to grade straight back from the curb to the base of the hill, which is what I'd have to do to fix the issue without losing my trees, would kill my fence. The curb is higher than my front yard and about level with my fence. Behind the fence it grades back down then up the hill.
Image


I assume that brown patch all along the fence is where the water collects?

Is that you're property?

BTW, nice trees in the front.
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Post #176 by Craig » Thu May 01, 2014 1:54 pm

How hard is installing hardwood floors? Is this something I could do myself to about 800 sq feet, or would I be better off shelling out for some immigrant to do it?
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Post #177 by AD » Thu May 01, 2014 2:03 pm

You can opt for the cheaper "floating wood" floor (the one Big#D is referring to that lock together), installation is quite easy. If you buy the good material of the cheaper material, you start getting close in texture and appearance to the real stuff.

Depends if this is a basement or your main floor or whatnot.
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Post #178 by Craig » Thu May 01, 2014 2:04 pm

AD wrote:You can opt for the cheaper "floating wood" floor (the one Big#D is referring to that lock together), installation is quite easy. If you buy the good material of the cheaper material, you start getting close in texture and appearance to the real stuff.

Depends if this is a basement or your main floor or whatnot.


Main floor. We want to get pretty good flooring that will last ~forever.
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Post #179 by AD » Thu May 01, 2014 2:05 pm

Craig wrote:Main floor. We want to get pretty good flooring that will last ~forever.


Then don't do it yourself.
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Post #180 by TO » Thu May 01, 2014 2:13 pm

Is floating hardwood inferior to nailing or gluing?
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Post #181 by AD » Thu May 01, 2014 2:16 pm

TO wrote:Is floating hardwood inferior to nailing or gluing?


Depending on the kind (and thickness), it usually doesn't have the long term survival ability. And most kinds, you can't sand and re-seal so once its worn, replacement is the only option. Hardwood, well taken care of, can last 100 years.
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Post #182 by TO » Thu May 01, 2014 2:23 pm

AD wrote:Depending on the kind (and thickness), it usually doesn't have the long term survival ability. And most kinds, you can't sand and re-seal so once its worn, replacement is the only option. Hardwood, well taken care of, can last 100 years.


Good to know.

I looked at a few of the "look a like" laminate click and lock systems but it's easy to see the difference between hard and laminate.
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Post #183 by MP » Thu May 01, 2014 2:23 pm

Big#D wrote:800 square feet is a decent size area. if you're not confident in your abilities, you'd probably be better off asking clawfirst to lead you on for months and months before doing it yourself or asking said immigrant to do it.

i have no idea how difficult it is though. i think there are easy types that just lock together and then other ones you need the flooring nail gun to do.

edit: it doesn't look so hard though

http://www.wikihow.com/Install-a-Prefinished-Hardwood-Floor
http://www.homedepot.ca/know-how/projects/installing-hardwood-flooring


If you're at all handy, hardwood flooring is a breeze to install. The trickiest part is starting the front row straight.

Things you need:
Mitre saw
Hammer
Rubber mallet
Air compressor
Drill
Finishing nails
Rent the floor stapler from homedepot.
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Post #184 by MP » Thu May 01, 2014 2:27 pm

onefatsurfer wrote:My property is on a bit of a hill. The average grade is probably 2-3 feet higher, but to grade straight back from the curb to the base of the hill, which is what I'd have to do to fix the issue without losing my trees, would kill my fence. The curb is higher than my front yard and about level with my fence. Behind the fence it grades back down then up the hill.
Image


So what you want to do here is look at the diagonal cross fall to the curb. I see that tree is your problematic area, as the root structure has raised the grade where your water flows and regrading around trees without compacting the roots is very difficult.

The best solution is probably directing the water back around the onto your neighbour...or digging a small swale diagonally between the trees.
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Post #185 by Craig » Thu May 01, 2014 2:49 pm

MP wrote:If you're at all handy, hardwood flooring is a breeze to install. The trickiest part is starting the front row straight.

Things you need:
Mitre saw
Hammer
Rubber mallet
Air compressor
Drill
Finishing nails
Rent the floor stapler from homedepot.


I can borrow all the stuff from my brother in law, who used to run a flooring company.
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Post #186 by MP » Thu May 01, 2014 2:57 pm

Craig wrote:I can borrow all the stuff from my brother in law, who used to run a flooring company.


Get him to set the first board and you'll be laughing.
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Post #187 by Craig » Thu May 01, 2014 3:00 pm

MP wrote:Get him to set the first board and you'll be laughing.


He got hit in the face with a board and now has no depth perception. I might get him to supervise me putting in the first board.
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Post #188 by MP » Thu May 01, 2014 3:20 pm

Craig wrote:He got hit in the face with a board and now has no depth perception. I might get him to supervise me putting in the first board.


What kinda floor you putting in? No, let me guess.... Bamboo?
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Post #189 by MP » Thu May 01, 2014 3:21 pm

onefatsurfer wrote:The curb is at a higher elevation than all of the yard to the fence, basically. I can't dig a swale and have it direct over the curb because everything is already too low. I could channel the water to a yard inlet, but then I'd have to run an outlet pipe down across my property (about 100 feet or so) and punch into the inlet on the corner of the property. This would be an ideal time to tie my sump pump and roof drain lines in, even though I'm pretty sure that's not exactly legal. The other option with digging a swale would be to channel it to a drywell, but I don't know the infiltration rates of the subgrade to know if that will even work. I think my first step is going to be digging a test pit to see how quickly the water drains into the subgrade when there's no topsoil in the way


Your topsoil shouldn't prevent the passage of water.
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Post #190 by MP » Thu May 01, 2014 3:35 pm

onefatsurfer wrote:Really?

:mcphee:


Nope, it should soak it up. By the sounds of things, you'll like find clay-silt underneath that'll be rock hard.
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Post #191 by Craig » Thu May 01, 2014 3:50 pm

MP wrote:What kinda floor you putting in? No, let me guess.... Bamboo?


We haven't decided yet. My favourite so far is Hickory:

Image

Image
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Post #192 by MP » Thu May 01, 2014 3:52 pm

Craig wrote:We haven't decided yet. My favourite so far is Hickory:

Image


But bamboo and cork are more Eco friendly... :squint:
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Post #193 by Craig » Thu May 01, 2014 3:54 pm

MP wrote:But bamboo and cork are more Eco friendly... :squint:


Yeah, but you have to ship them from overseas and they don't last as long. I can get Canadian Hickory that will last forever, so I'm not convinced it's any worse.
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Post #194 by Craig » Fri May 02, 2014 12:23 pm

I measured the space I need to refloor last night and it's actually only like 400 sq feet. I knew I was guessing on the high side, but I didn't realize it was that high.

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