Chicago

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Re: Chicago

Post #101 by Boring Choice #2 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:05 pm

AD wrote:
Dog wrote:How are your kids btw, AD? They weird too?


My 2nd is pretty normal I feel. Very smart. Great sense of observation (notices details like your daughter, somewhat headstrong too.. but can go back to "reasonable" pretty quick). He's like your daughter-light. He's 3 though so there's room for me to screw him up.

My 1st is a bit of a mess. Smart. Especially when it comes to creative/artistic side. He's also a pretty good reader (for his age). But really comes to life if you give him anything that can make music or to draw with or sing or dance. But he has these dark mood swings. Very negative. Loses hope in a situation very quickly. He's like an angsty-emotional 14 year old.
Except he's 6.


i get this feeling that being a good reader makes a big difference in how a kid does in school. my daughter has been a good reader since day one. she can read at a junior adult level now. really the only thing holding her back is lack of experience / knowledge of life.

my son started slow. he was happy to read with people up until grade one or so, and put up a fight when we tried to make him read on his own. he was (and is) behind my daughter's reading skills. but then this past year, we saw a marked change in him. i started a reward system to get him to read. originally it was 25 cents for every 20 pages read, and then after that we changed it to $1 for every time he reached the page of a book that was divisible by 100, plus for finishing a book. eventually they were just getting check marks and i haven't bothered paying them for it.

needless to say, he went from struggling through the second harry potter book at the beginning of the school year (my wife read the first book to them last summer) to flying through the third through the fifth/sixth books. this is on top of all the other books that they read "for fun". he's been reading the 7th book for awhile now (because he went back to fighting to have to read harry potter specifically at about midway through the sixth book), and i think had about one hundred pages left last weekend. he's probably going to finish today or tomorrow.

the thing is, there was a mental shift in him. he used to say that he wasn't good at reading and refuse to pick books up. now, he has complete confidence in his ability to read and the only question is whether he wants to or not. i think it also gives him confidence in being able to learn things. there are no more excuses for him. he can't say that he's not smart enough and he can't read well enough, so he just pushes through and reads.

i don't know what any of this has to do with your angsty son, other than perhaps to let him have an outlet for his feelings through art/books/music. maybe put him in piano lessons or something and let him work on that side of his passions. it's good for his brain anyway.
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Re: Chicago

Post #102 by Dog » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:14 pm

That's actually a great suggestion.

He does seem like he'd make a great composer. Then tell him that he should be grateful that he has found his passion in expressing his angst through the piano, banana!
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Re: Chicago

Post #103 by AD » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:19 pm

Yeah yeah. I've thought of that.

He's gonna be doing piano and some martial arts soon. I want to try those out with him and see if anything sticks.
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Re: Chicago

Post #104 by Boring Choice #2 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:24 pm

Dog wrote:Have you found the program worthwhile? I'd take your kid's relative results with a grain of salt (as I'm sure you do) as, as you've said, a child's focus and "seriousness" has outweighed effects, especially in grade school (ie. calm/focussed kids do especially well at that level). Your son can very much do "better" in the long run. Make sure she knows this. Use this sibling rivalry to fuel results.


the test results were at the end of last year. she starts the program in grade 5. it's a bit of a joke. the "gifted" teacher from the board went on and on about giftedness. we told our daughter that it just means she's smart and did really well on one test one time. the board gave us two option -- to go to a special class (in another school) of just gifted kids; or stay in the school and have special field trips and challenging work. my daughter picked the second option and has had one field trip where she played sudoku and did some other stuff at the board office. i think she might have benefited from going to the other school (away from her brother), but she didn't want to leave her friends and we weren't going to punish her for doing well on one test one time. a neighbour kid of ours went to this smart school and enjoyed it, so we were a bit concerned. had she not had a twin brother, we might have made another decision for her, but we gave in to make the situation easier on the two of us.

my son knows that more is expected of him. we always tell him that he's smart and that his distractedness is only a little bit of an excuse, but that he's got to put in the effort to overcome his distractions. his marks aren't where they should be, but neither is his work effort. we know that he needs to work on both to achieve his potential.
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Re: Chicago

Post #105 by Boring Choice #2 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:27 pm

AD wrote:
Boring Choice #2 wrote:my daughter has the advantage of not only being intelligent, but being inherently lazy. even though she's smart and can do well, she doesn't try very hard and gets by with regular smart kid marks. at some point it will impact her. but i think for now, she's fine.


Fantastic. Some day, she too can grow up to be a reasonably successful middling professional that spends her time discussing basement leaks and vacation plans on an obscure sports board.


absolutely. i've said for awhile that i think my daughter could grow up to be an accountant (or perhaps a corporate lawyer working for a quasi-governmental organization).

my son, on the other hand, will either be an absolute success in life or a complete and utter failure with very little chance of in between. smart kid. just needs to put it all together.
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Re: Chicago

Post #106 by Dog » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:49 pm

AD wrote:Yeah yeah. I've thought of that.

He's gonna be doing piano and some martial arts soon. I want to try those out with him and see if anything sticks.


You're going to do martial arts with him to see if it sticks? As in one-on-one?
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Re: Chicago

Post #107 by AD » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:56 pm

No.
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Re: Chicago

Post #108 by Dog » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:57 pm

Boring Choice #2 wrote: we always tell him that he's smart


Apparently the advice is to not tell your kids they are smart. Can lead them to have a "fixed mindset", where they think intelligence or ability is a fixed thing and tests validate whether or not they have it. Apparently, it's better to teach them a "grow" mindset where you tied success with effort -the brain with a muscle, if you excercise, it grows, etc. The thinking goes that kids with a "fixed mindset" can even be put off from trying their best because if they try hard and fail then that confirms that they are not smart.

Not that I know. Because of this, I've always had an "efforts" based discussion with my daughter yet she doesn't work very hard and is kinda nuts.

:dunno:
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Re: Chicago

Post #109 by Dog » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:02 pm

AD wrote:No.


Oh, put him in a class and see if it sticks?

My daughter has been doing violin for 2 years. She asked for it, we made her wait a year and then got her lessons. She likes it, loves her teacher (twenty somethinn with a bachelor in violin that comes to our house and is great with kids), doesn't practice too seriously but still puts in some effort/time. She's not progressing fast at all, but is adament that she wants to continue. We just let her do it at her own pace. Plan isn't to make her a professional, it's a hobby (I like the long term, gradual progression side of it as a teaching lesson). I say if they have interest, do it even if they are young and won't progress fast.
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Re: Chicago

Post #110 by AD » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:03 pm

Yeah that's my hope.

Except replace violin with piano (because I play and can reasonably help and we have a large keyboard already and nothing sounds worse that a bad violin player).
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Re: Chicago

Post #111 by Dog » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:12 pm

AD wrote:Yeah that's my hope.

Except replace violin with piano (because I play and can reasonably help and we have a large keyboard already and nothing sounds worse that a bad violin player).


Sure. That's one area we lack -she knows more and is better than me, so I can't help between lessons. I do sit in on lessons when I'm home to be able to help a bit with her practices, but I'm basically of no help.

A quality used violin doesn't sound too bad -that was some good advice from the teacher. The dreadful sounds are mostly from new lower quality instruments. Teacher took her to to the luthier and picked a used instrument for her. It never sounded very bad. Luthier is a cool place for kids too. They see the instruments being made/repared. Can touch the horsehair strings, etc. They are pretty good with kids, she gets a kick everytime we need to go. It's a good activity.
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Re: Chicago

Post #112 by Boring Choice #2 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:03 pm

Dog wrote:
Boring Choice #2 wrote: we always tell him that he's smart


Apparently the lasted advice is to not tell your kids they are smart. Can lead them to have a "fixed mindset", where they think intelligence or ability is a fixed thing and tests validate whether or not they have it. Apparently, it's better to teach them a "grow" mindset where you tied success with effort -the brain with a muscle, if you excercise, it grows, etc. The thinking goes that kids with a "fixed mindset" can even be put off from trying their best because if they try hard and fail then that confirms that they are not smart.

Not that I know. Because of this, I've always had an "efforts" based discussion with my daughter yet she doesn't work very hard and is kinda nuts.

:dunno:


Yeah, that's the whole mantra of the kids' school - growth mindset vs fixed mindset. The whole thing though with the brain being like a muscle is to consider that there are people who are more predisposed to being smart, much like there are people who are more predisposed to being athletes. Different people have different intelligences / strengths. They still need to work to be their best, but some people will be better able to take advantage of their hard work.

With my son, we have to build him up to motivate him to want to do his best. Sometimes (like with sports and especially hockey), he thinks he is great and we have to tear him down a bit (like when he thinks he is going to be an NHL player), but it is a balancing act. You want to keep their interests in the things that they love without building unrealistic expectations.

With my daughter, if you build stuff up, she tends to get embarrassed and shy away from it. When she was a bit younger, she really wanted to be a marine biologist and learned so much about sea animals that. We played it up a bit and eventually she stopped wanting to, mostly because I think she got embarrassed about people asking her about it. She is the type where she is happy to learn about stuff on her own terms, but she doesn't want to be pressured in to anything.
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Re: Chicago

Post #113 by AD » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:25 pm

Expectations = effort.

I like your daughter D. I adopted her philosophy early in life too.
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Re: Chicago

Post #114 by Boring Choice #2 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:53 pm

I am perfectly happy with a nice, safe, boring accountant for a daughter. I expect her to do well in school, whether she is the best student or just in the top 10 - 25%. As long as she tries somewhat and doesn't look like a slacker to everyone else, I am perfectly fine with A's. I am less fine with a B student, unless she is trying her very best and just can't figure it out. Anything below that is unacceptable.

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