Broads Thread on the Abroad

[Dr_Chimera]

[Dr_Chimera]

Quietly stashed away in a NY Times piece.

[Retardé S]

Gotta take care of that oil money

[mayoradamwest]

Russian ambassador to Turkey killed at exhibition. I do not like modern art.

[LC]

Russian ambassador to Turkey killed at exhibition. I do not like modern art.

:maw:

[vonbonds]

Gotta take care of that oil money

Jesus that's the Death Star of smileys

[The Bytown Boozer]

Religiously motivated hit-and-run at some Christmas market in Berlin. 9 dead over some bullshit beliefs that humanity should've left behind centuries ago.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/19/europe/berlin-christmas-market-truck/index.html

[The Bytown Boozer]

I've always kinda mixed up eb and boozer in my mind.

EB hates muslims. I just think religion is something that humanity must overcome if we are to have any hope of survival on this planet.

[The Bytown Boozer]

It'll take time, but I think the end of organized religion as a significant influence is happening quicker than most realize.

The demographics don't lie. Religion has been dying a slow death for about 200 years now, although I'd argue that these upcoming final death throes are bound to get really ugly. Those last remaining hardliners are rather batshit, aren't they?

As they die off, however, it'll be one less problem for humanity to deal with.

[Germz]

From a world-historical standpoint, the decline of Christianity in much of the west is more than matched by its growth elsewhere. What looks like the rise of enlightened atheism in the west from one standpoint merely looks to the rest of the world like a decline of one civilization into apostasy and decadence. And that's without even considering Islam.

[The Bytown Boozer]

From a world-historical standpoint, the decline of Christianity in much of the west is more than matched by its growth elsewhere. What looks like the rise of enlightened atheism in the west from one standpoint merely looks to the rest of the world like a decline of one civilization into apostasy and decadence. And that's without even considering Islam.

But as other countries around the world modernize rapidly, their young populations will also fall prey to the luring proposition of apostasy & decadence. Wishful thinking, perhaps, but it does strike me as a rather probable outcome given the interconnected direction that our planet is headed towards.

[AD]

Boozer's wrong.

[The Bytown Boozer]

I may be, but it's important to remember that the demise of the Warsaw Pact was almost inconceivable in the early 1980's.

It should've been clear as day, but we were all so caught up in what we perceived to be the endless conflict of that era.

[Germz]

South Koreans are admittedly crazy, but something about modernizing has made them flock to Christian priests and preachers in droves.

[The Bytown Boozer]

South Koreans are admittedly crazy, but something about modernizing has made them flock to Christian priests and preachers in droves.

Is this a permanent phenomenon however? How difficult will it be to keep these gains in a world where atheism is growing rapidly in the West and beginning to emerge in places where it was completely absent a mere 20 years ago?

This current generation of Koreans may be turning to Christianity, but what happens when their children rebel against it much like they did here in the mid-60's?

[IcE ColD]

South Koreans are admittedly crazy, but something about modernizing has made them flock to Christian priests and preachers in droves.

Oh they are. Believe me, they fucking are. At least, the ones in positions of power.

[The Bytown Boozer]

We've had atheist societies. Same as the theists. I don't know why some people hold it up as a holy grail. We animals dawg, that's the issue. If indeed that is an issue.

Atheism is not in and of itself a good thing. At the end of the day, preachy people are still assholes. But religion is a lie. And a destructive one at that.

I still think that by the year 2100, religion will be greatly reduced in its influence. Doesn't seem to be a popular theory 'round these here parts, but I think that time and the span of generations does make 98% of societies better off and more peaceful. This, in my opinion, will apply to religion's downfall in the upcoming century.

Sorry guys.

[senate]

South Koreans are admittedly crazy, but something about modernizing has made them flock to Christian priests and preachers in droves.

I think it is more fair to say that something about modernity has made South Koreans reject their traditional religions. Nearly half the country is atheist/agnostic.

[The Bytown Boozer]

Yeah, society does indeed seem to get progressively (with hicups) more peaceful.

Probably of function of more complex societies calling for greater cooperation and of more plenty that creates.

I believe that road towards greater cooperation and communication of knowledge leads to a significantly less religious world, or at the very least one that is much more moderate & nuanced in its beliefs.

[The Bytown Boozer]

Or, as a Millennial would put it: "BRO THIS WORLD ONLY GONNA GET MORE WOKE AF".

It truly is a shame that while our society becomes more tolerant & informed, language seems to devolve as a counterbalance.

[Craig]

Dog, we're almost certainly just computer simulations.

[The Bytown Boozer]

Very nice response Dogue. Top shelf stuff. This is why I keep coming here, fellas.

However, I'm much too hungry & tired to respond to all of this adequately. I motion we postpone this debate until tomorrow (or later tonight if I'm still awake).

[Shawnathan Horcoff]

Dog, we're almost certainly just computer simulations.

I believe this to be the most cowardly hypothesis of our time.

[senate]

Dog, we're almost certainly just computer simulations.

Maybe, maybe not.

Don't think about it too hard or you will cause yourself to kernel panic.

[senate]

I'm just trying to enjoy the improbable ride, senate. Same as Greg, really. Just with less hobo killings.

Oh, so you are just having a midlife crisis. Well, you aren't to learn how to live life to fullest through religion, philosophy, or introspective contemplation. The answers you seek can only come from watching City Slickers, and, to a much lesser extent, watching City Slickers 2: The Search For Curly's Gold.

[AD]

Rome is falling. You hopeful optimistic fucks disgust me.

[The Bytown Boozer]

Rome is falling. You hopeful optimistic fucks disgust me.

This is the same old alarmist bullshit I've been hearing from poor people since the tender age of 9.

It never does seem to come to fruition, however. I wonder why that is.................

[The Bytown Boozer]

Ok... so that last post was a little mean. But I'm good & drunk now so let's analyze what Dog said.

Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, you know? Maybe "progress" scraps civilization and we slide back. Maybe Rome falls and all hell breaks loose. Maybe not.

I agree. So far, so good.

I just don't see why religion is a significant issue. Do we think we are going to get past greed and envy and lust for power at the same time we get past of tribalism? Is religion culture and religious intolerance a form of tribalism? I think alot of human behaviour is better understood if we keep in mind we are primates, with very hierarchical social structures. Our quirks are largely legacies of behaviours that allowed us to survive. Will we outgrow it all and become rational computers? Is that a better thing? Reason is a means. What's the end? Self interest? Something else? Why?

Yeesh... at this point you're just making typos to fuck with me, ain't ya? In any case, tribalism IS religion. It's also nationalism if we want to nitpick. So do I think that we should abolish all nations shortly after doing away with religion? Absolutely! Countries are total bullshit in today's multi-national world, and tribalism needs to die.

To do away with religion is not to become a cyborg, it is simply us as a species agreeing that the idea of a mother being raped before her children's eyes could never be justified by the Quran. https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/12/19/canadian-hostage-children-seen-in-just-released-taliban-video.html

Or the Bible... Or the Torah! This tragedy, which came out today amongst the onslaught of infuriating news about Islam, reminds me why religion is such a sadistic joke.

As for lies, what's the truth? We're condensed energy unleashed in the big bang that is dragging on spacetime creating mass and slowing time? We, along with other more or less condensed forms of energy, will (probably) eventually spread out so far appart that we'll freeze into a standstill or (less likely) revert back into a big crunch? We don't even have the faintest notion of what we are in any satisfying sense. Disturbances in some expanding field, as far as we can tell. Don't know and may never know field of what, from what, part of what, huh?

Ok, so you're getting a bit technical, but I'll play along. The truth is that we live in a random universe where reason or morals do not exist as a natural law. We have to create them ourselves, and when religion that purports to have created these very ideals does nothing but violate human decency again & again, then I'd say it would be high time we come up with a new set of ideals, innit? The Catholic church, the government of Israel, most of the Middle East... all that shit is abhorrent. Hell, the continent we live on was conquered by a genocide that was supposedly approved by whatever the fuck "God" is supposed to be. Where's the fucking morals in that?! As you said, ours is an uncaring universe. To ignore this reality and our human morals is to tacitly endorse the history of random violence that the Church holds to be some kind of divine destiny.

You yourself, ever consider what "you" are? Are your atoms part of the same chain of cause and effect guided by the physical laws of our universe and originating in the big bang? Is there even a "you" in there? Your consciousness? Is that you? What is that? Is it methaphysical? Is it the magical soul outside of the physical world? Nah, we don't belive in that nonesense. It's your neurons firing giving what you perceive as a subjective experience of the world -aka your consciousness. Neurons then are cells made up of atoms like any other and interracting with other atoms and subatomic particles just like anything else in the universe. Is there a you? A small part of the universe in its expansionary course? Is your free will an illusion? Neuroscience seems to suggest it is, even if it's early days in the research.

Many questions here, but the answer to your overarching query about the nature of man is: abso-fucking-lutely! We are stardust. All that jazz.

Do we keep in mind that "truth" in "deciding" on our actions? Is it akin to being religious to do otherwise?

Granted, religion does not ignore the essence of mankind, but mostly it just explains what crazy theories a nomadic desert people without a clue will uphold as divine truth.

Yeah, I just said "you're space dust transformed into automata, mofo. Who cares about people being religious." As for the matter closer to hand, I don't think religiousity has that great an impact of people's general shitiness or otherwise, that's much more a function of our quirks as primates.

Y'know what? Next time you see a religious person, tell 'em about your whole primate theory. See how that goes over.

[The Bytown Boozer]

Important reminder: I love all of you, and I would gladly let any which of you guys make love to a man/woman on my couch despite our minor disagreements.

Scout's honour.

[senate]

Boozer, I agree and share your sentiment. I do.

We, relatively "widest common denominator" colaborator types, aren't the only types, though (and don't think I still wouldn't stab you in the eye in the right circumstances). We're probably a fairly small minority. We're part of a species of complex social animals, our type likely plays a useful evolutionary role for the species as do other types. Will we eventually take over the world? You need to party in Gatineau and make more illegitimate offspring, boozy. That said, is more of our type desirable? I'd think so but I'm sorta biased in favour of my type. Is it objectively more desirable? I doubt it, as you concurred, it's all random. That has very profound necessary implications.

Why am I talking about this? Because I don't believe religion has that much impact -it's a symptom rather than a cause. The cause is the way our brains have been wired through time and it's interractions with the external world. Wired to survive. Not because survival is "good". Simply because what survived is what's here.

It leads me to 2 questions:

1) is religiosity materially impactful on behaviour or rather is behaviour more deeply rooted in the human genome and shaped by the external environment (ie. Is a prick a prick and a saint a saint, regardless of religiosity). I would tend to think so, by in large.

2) a correlate of that question is, if religion does have an impact, is it significantly different than other "irrational beliefs". That leads down a rabbit hole of what is an irrational belief. Nationalism? Any ism? Is it all tribal behaviour? Is that bad? What's the "rational good choice"? Like I stated reason is a means. The end is what you decide. If the universe is random, there is no objective goal. My genes that push me (through a random evolution of the universe) to survive probably lead me to think the ultimate rationality is self interest (promoted through both collaboration and cheating, as appropriate). A game theory like approach to life. Is that the goal? Very rational game theory based decision making? Further, how much magical beliefs do atheists hold on the nature of existance? The star dust seems fairly accepted at least among subsets of humanity. But you can go further. Latest science points to you likely not even existing, boozer. Ain't that a kick in the pants? First, get yanked out from the center of the universe, then may not even exist. I'm not even talking about current unknowables like multiverse theory or greg's computer simulation theory. I'm talking about theory of consciousness. What is you if not a reference to that. If consciousness is not some magical outside of physics thing, then you are automata simply responding to the laws of physics -like any other natural process. More and more studies show that "consciousness" appears as a post-fact selective reconstruction of events -that your decisions are taken subconsciously and you only experience consciousness post fact and experience it as "willfull". Further, when you look at brain scans, you can see certain neural networks firing up more intensely with "conscious" experience, but its not centralized and, more importantly, nothing magical happens. Atoms and subatomic particles interact. When you hear sound, it's a chain reaction between where it's emitted to your neurons firing. Was the experience of sound the neuron, the air molecule movement, the chemical reaction transforming kinetic energy into electrical impulse? It down right blurs the distinction between the internal and the external. Is it religious to view the world in any other terms than those? Are you being a stupid believer in fairytales by believing you exist and have agency?

All kinda interesting I guess, but the most immediate key question is whether religion is much different from and harmful than any other types of beliefs and wacky views humans hold on the world.

[senate]

[Dr_Chimera]

How the US poured billions into Russian neoliberal policies of the 1990s and shaped the 1996 election: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/03/russ ... hareaholic

[Dr_Chimera]

US-backed famine in Yemen not worth the coverage.

[mayoradamwest]

anti Putin exile dead after accidentally crossing path with fired bullet.
www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/03/ ... raine.html

[Dr_Chimera]

US continues to terrorize Iraq.

[Dr_Chimera]

Alec Luhn reports on being arrested at a Navalny protest in St. Petersburgh. With pictures at the protest and police station: https://twitter.com/ASLuhn

[Dr_Chimera]

Some factual errors, but still interesting.

[Dr_Chimera]

Nadezhda Tolokonnikova's comments about Western perceptions of Putin are quite apt. She also succinctly explains why Russians are hesitant to overthrow Putin: http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capita ... -democrats

[Dr_Chimera]

[The Bytown Boozer]

[MP]

https://twitter.com/ottawasuncom/status/931644424106512385

And this is why you never pass out first...

[mayoradamwest]

You gotta take turns mp

[MP]

You gotta take turns mp

Take turns passing out or is it a communal eel? Do they make eel sized condoms?

[Shawnathan Horcoff]

.

[chicpea]

I had a wife once.

[Dr_Chimera]

[PredsFan77]

[Dr_Chimera]

[PredsFan77]

well now yall know i was up to no good while traveling to new zealand:


WELLINGTON (Reuters) - New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said on Friday she was pregnant with her first child,

[PredsFan77]

Thank you. Despite lots of advice, we won't name our child Frodo