Set the tires alight! The 2016-17 season is smo(u)ldering

19nazzy · Post #301 by **19nazzy** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:05 pm

I take it back, I'm glad they traded Bonino for Sutter. What a monster.

Jyrki21 · Post #302 by **Jyrki21** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:23 pm

Part II to "The Farm":

19nazzy · Post #303 by **19nazzy** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:11 pm

Well done this week.

19nazzy · Post #304 by **19nazzy** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:04 pm

I will be extremely disappointed if the Canucks win or get an overtime/SO point tonight. That would bump them from 2nd to 5th spot.

So naturally, it will probably happen.

King Ryan · Post #305 by **King Ryan** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:21 pm

Yes. It would be the most Canucks thing ever for them to win tonight, get screwed in the lottery and end up drafting like 8th, and have Arizona win the first overall.

Looking at the roster though, this reminds me of that game a few years ago where the Canucks rested almost everyone on the last game of the season. Cam Barker played like 20 minutes and was a -5 or something. Also against the Oilers if I recall.

Vector · Post #306 by **Vector** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:38 am

Instead they clinch the second worst record in the NHL and finish with...69 points.

King Ryan · Post #307 by **King Ryan** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:08 am

Eat your heart out, stupid pre-season projections that had us at 65 points. We beat that by 2 wins!

Hooker · Post #308 by **Hooker** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:52 am

I planned each charted course
Each careful step along the byway
And more, much more than this
I did it myyyyyyyyyyy way

19nazzy · Post #309 by **19nazzy** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:59 am

Vector wrote:Instead they clinch the second worst record in the NHL and finish with...69 points.

I'm surprised!

I also just did a lottery sim and the Canucks won.

19nazzy · Post #310 by **19nazzy** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:04 pm

Killface · Post #311 by **Killface** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:12 pm

Nice.That was quick.

Hopefully this doesn't buy management more time though.

Killface · Post #312 by **Killface** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:25 pm

Any decent replacements out there?

Travis Green is a popular option, but I'm not convinced. I'd rather not go with a rookie coach again plus Green seems just as loyal to his favourites and veterans as Willie. He refused to play McCann and Hutton, scratched Subban, buried McEneny in the ECHL last season, and recently dressed Negrin as a 7th defenceman instead of playing Brett McKenzie or Max French.

Vector · Post #313 by **Vector** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:37 pm

If they were going to fire management, they would not have let them fire Willie. Same thing happened with Gillis and Tortorella.

I did some research into potential coaching candidates a while ago but can't seem to find what I had written down. Crawford is the popular rumour and he'd be a terrible choice. I'm not a fan of Green.

There is the recently fired guys like Capuano and Ruff as well.

Killface · Post #314 by **Killface** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:57 pm

Pearn and Lidster also fired. Press conference at 1pm today.

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/news/canuck ... -288646472

King Ryan · Post #315 by **King Ryan** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:09 pm

No surprise. The puppets in the media had been laying all the blame at Willie's feet the past few weeks. Actually the first thing I did this morning was check tsn to see if he'd been fired yet.

Mixed feelings really. Willie is a terrible coach who should have been fired after he cost us the Calgary series with his mindblowingly stupid ice time allocation. So I can't say he doesn't deserve it. But also does seem unfair that he is the scapegoat for this train wreck of a team that Benning has put together.

Cao · Post #316 by **Cao** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:44 pm

I'm glad that idiot is gone. Yeah, it's not his fault he was handed a subpar roster, but boy did he do everything he could to make it even worse than it was. It was detrimental to the development of our young players and keeping him for another year would've been incredible stupid.

Plus I can't forgive him for Sedin Bonino Richardson Horvat ad nauseum in the playoffs. Losing to a rival like that in the playoffs was pathetic.

Cao · Post #317 by **Cao** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:44 pm

anyway can't wait for us to draft 5th again after finishing bottom 3

Vector · Post #318 by **Vector** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:57 pm

I'm very excited to pick a middling prospect who performs poorly in their draft year +1.

Jyrki21 · Post #319 by **Jyrki21** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:28 am

Since TSN1040 lost the broadcast rights, it sounds like they're ripping more directly into management. I didn't see/hear the post-Willie press conference, but I gather it looked a lot like my recent Linden-centric episode of BoE and from what I've read, they're taking heat over the inconsistencies and fabrications. So I don't think they're in the clear in the public imagination. Although I do find it mind-boggling when people still point to the supposed "mess" left behind by the most successful management regime in club history as to why Benning makes dumb decisions, because I still read this a lot. Guys, did you know the Canucks failed to draft a franchise player when they were drafting 27-30th? How could a guy recover from that?!

I don't think the next coach matters that much; the only reason I'd be bothered by Green getting his feet wet as a stopgap is if he doesn't develop prospects very well. And so far he seems not to, but he's also rarely had the opportunity. Management may also feel more comfortable giving direct marching orders to a younger guy.

Vector · Post #320 by **Vector** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:58 am

Pretty much exact thoughts.

Any coach is going to be better but the right coach is a guy that's going to develop the kids.

19nazzy · Post #321 by **19nazzy** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:38 pm

Jyrki21 wrote:Since TSN1040 lost the broadcast rights, it sounds like they're ripping more directly into management. I didn't see/hear the post-Willie press conference, but I gather it looked a lot like my recent Linden-centric episode of BoE and from what I've read, they're taking heat over the inconsistencies and fabrications. So I don't think they're in the clear in the public imagination. Although I do find it mind-boggling when people still point to the supposed "mess" left behind by the most successful management regime in club history as to why Benning makes dumb decisions, because I still read this a lot. Guys, did you know the Canucks failed to draft a franchise player when they were drafting 27-30th? How could a guy recover from that?!

I don't think the next coach matters that much; the only reason I'd be bothered by Green getting his feet wet as a stopgap is if he doesn't develop prospects very well. And so far he seems not to, but he's also rarely had the opportunity. Management may also feel more comfortable giving direct marching orders to a younger guy.

I agree with most of your post but this I have to disagree with. We saw the Red Wings grab franchise players over the past 20 years while being arguably the most successful franchise during that time. Most of them weren't even in the first round either.

Vector · Post #322 by **Vector** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:21 pm

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

Jyrki21 · Post #323 by **Jyrki21** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:12 pm

19nazzy wrote:I agree with most of your post but this I have to disagree with. We saw the Red Wings grab franchise players over the past 20 years while being arguably the most successful franchise during that time. Most of them weren't even in the first round either.

They grabbed a couple of star players in Datsyuk and Zetterberg (which surprised even them, frankly), but I hardly think a failure to do this constitutes a "mess" by Gillis, otherwise you have about 29 messy franchises.

19nazzy · Post #324 by **19nazzy** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:12 pm

^I agree it doesn't qualify as a "mess"

Vector wrote:What exactly are you disagreeing with?

I don't agree with the sentiment of giving a GM a pass with drafting just because they picked in the 25-30 range. Though I wouldn't agree that it created a "mess".

Vector · Post #325 by **Vector** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:55 pm

Part of the reason Detroit is that they are in the situation they are in now is that they stopped getting lucky and their development of later picks halted. When you're consistently picking late the GM needs to take advantage of other teams undervaluing young stars, good development of complimentary players (boosting their value by having them play with your stars), and looking at late blooming potential in other leagues. Chicago is a masterclass in doing this. Detroit was adept at this and got extremely lucky in drafting Zetterberg and Datsyuk but completely failed at properly developing and capitalizing their other picks.

Hooker · Post #326 by **Hooker** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:55 am

19nazzy wrote:I agree with most of your post but this I have to disagree with. We saw the Red Wings grab franchise players over the past 20 years while being arguably the most successful franchise during that time. Most of them weren't even in the first round either.

That same management team finished 25th in the league and their most recent late-round franchise player is now 36 years old.

I agree with you that drafting high is not a good way to build a winning franchise. That's been a failing strategy for Edmonton, Atlanta/Winnipeg, Arizona, Florida, Columbus (maybe), Colorado, New Jersey, Buffalo, and Carolina. The Blackhawks got Panarin undrafted, Hjalmarsson in the fourth round, Keith in the second, Shaw in the fifth round, Saad in the second, Krueger in the fifth, Brouwer in the seventh, Bolland in the second, Bickell in the second, Byfuglien in the eighth. But only Keith and Panarin are stars, and they passed on Panarin in 2010 just like all other 29 teams. Most star players are picked 1-10 and most of the remaining stars are picked 11-20. The ones that are picked later are getting lucky. You can increase your odds from 0.5% to 1.5% by intelligent scouting, but it's still an outrageous gamble you can't bet the success of your franchise on. Way, way too much emphasis is placed on drafting high by the sports media and most fans, but you're swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. If Holland knew Zetterberg and Datsyuk were going to be as good as they turned out to be, he wouldn't have given the other teams six and five chances respectively to draft them instead - he's said as much multiple times. The Canucks should be focusing on increasing the number of NHL-level players they get out of the draft, not the number of NHL-superstars they find outside of the first round. Judging an organisation on the basis how many stars they uncover undrafted/late rounds is judging their competence on how lucky they are. It's totally unrealistic.

King Ryan · Post #327 by **King Ryan** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:16 am

I agree with Hooker.

The thing with Chicago is that they frequently had 8-12 picks in the draft. In 2004 they had 17 picks! That is what is so frustrating about Benning; he hamstrings himself by dealing away so many draft picks. Yes a 4th round pick is not worth much but when you have 3 of them you increase your odds of one of them being Hjalmarsson.

Hell, last year the Blackhawks had nine draft picks. How is that even possible? The Canucks had six, of which two were in the top 100. Chicago was a 103 point team that had four selections in the top 100. It is mind-boggling.

And again this year, no 6th because we needed to have Emerson Etem. No 5th because we needed to have Phil Larsen. Meanwhile Chicago has 3 fifth-rounders and 2 sixth-rounders despite the fact that they are in the playoffs right now. Who is more likely to uncover a late round gem?

Vector · Post #328 by **Vector** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:48 pm

Chicago has been fantastic at selling their average support players for picks or in-season support. Kruger has been one of the few they've signed to a long term contract. Most teams hugely overvalue their own players and only deal them after the value dropped. Chicago almost always deals from a position of strength.

Jyrki21 · Post #329 by **Jyrki21** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:16 pm

A Very Special Episode for the long weekend:

Killface · Post #330 by **Killface** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:04 am

Well that sucks.

King Ryan · Post #331 by **King Ryan** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:15 am

Apparently wasn't happy getting bottom-pairing minutes for one of the worst teams in the league.

Vector · Post #332 by **Vector** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:00 pm

What a complete shitshow this organization has turned into.

19nazzy · Post #333 by **19nazzy** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:49 pm

The Province wrote:Tryamkin was mentioned several times by President Trevor Linden during his post-mortem media conference just last week as someone the team is building around.

Killface · Post #334 by **Killface** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:20 pm

Tryamkin was one of the few players that made the Canucks occasionally worth watching. Now there's just Bo and maybe Stecher and Hutton.

This probably means Gudbranson is here long term to fill the tough to play against quota. And a higher chance Juolevi is rushed.

Jyrki21 · Post #335 by **Jyrki21** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:50 pm

Killface wrote:This probably means Gudbranson is here long term to fill the tough to play against quota.

Tomorrow's BoE is suddenly really appropriate...

Jyrki21 · Post #336 by **Jyrki21** » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:12 pm

As promised, here is "The Big Damn Hero":

King Ryan · Post #337 by **King Ryan** » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:46 pm

Pretty amazing that even when you set the bar impossibly low for this team, the offseason still begins with some terrible event that you hadn't even considered.

Starting to become a pattern with some of the comments made by Corrado, Virtanen, tryamkin, young players feel directionless and like they don't know what the team expects from them.

What a clusterfuck.

Killface · Post #338 by **Killface** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:34 pm

Bob McKenzie and the local media reporting Travis Green will be the Head Coach. Press conference at 11am tomorrow to make the announcement.

Vector · Post #339 by **Vector** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:35 pm

I was just coming to post that. Better than Crawford, I guess. My opinion on it really depends on how long his contract is.

King Ryan · Post #340 by **King Ryan** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:10 pm

Don't really mind but it is just such an uninspired choice. Doesn't seem like they interviewed anyone or really considered anyone else.

Vector · Post #341 by **Vector** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:37 pm

I'm guessing they were locked in on either him or Crawfor. With the Sens going to the second round and Green, reportedly, getting multiple offers from other clubs throughout the world he may have given the team an ultimatum. Would have really preferred Paul MacLean or another assistant coach looking at a second kick at the can.

Jyrki21 · Post #342 by **Jyrki21** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:25 pm

I received this as spam in my work account:

Is this the course Sbisa did?

King Ryan · Post #343 by **King Ryan** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:20 pm

It pains me so much that I know what that is.

King Ryan · Post #344 by **King Ryan** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:35 pm

King Ryan wrote:Don't really mind but it is just such an uninspired choice. Doesn't seem like they interviewed anyone or really considered anyone else.

Linden confirmed today that they didn't interview anyone else... Real good guys. Due diligence, fuck that.

Vector · Post #345 by **Vector** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:07 pm

Yeah, holy shit.

Jyrki21 · Post #346 by **Jyrki21** » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:30 pm

King Ryan wrote:It pains me so much that I know what that is.

Is it media training? I didn't probe too much.

Jyrki21 · Post #347 by **Jyrki21** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:08 pm

Had to pull a last-minute switcheroo on which edition was coming out today, as the next (hopefully) one has an adjoining feature. So you get a bottle episode this week:

King Ryan · Post #348 by **King Ryan** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:15 pm

Two years of being a bottom-5 team, two years of utterly getting the shaft in the lottery.

Vector · Post #349 by **Vector** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:19 pm

This is great. This stupid fucking management team can't even lose correctly.

MP · Post #350 by MP » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:32 pm

Haha.

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