The Vector Unemployment/Blue Jays Thread

Vector · Post #19452 by **Vector** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:26 pm

This is fantastic news!

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19453 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:20 pm

Now get rid of Machado and you're the third best team in the division. Congrats.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19454 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:38 pm

Yankees sniffing around Darvish.

BUT WE HIRED A NEW ATHLETIC TRAINER.

Transplanted Caper · Post #19455 by **Transplanted Caper** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:12 pm

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19456 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:15 pm

Is he any good?

More Tulo/Travis protection. Underwhelming Jays offseason continues!

Vector · Post #19457 by **Vector** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:20 pm

He’s interesting. Biggest advantages are his versatility in the infield, great team guy, rarely strikes out, and has some power. He’s not a full-time guy but should be a very good utility option. That should be in the infield complete. Still no LFer our 4th guy unless they’re giving Smith Jr., Alford, and Pompey a chance. No backup catcher either if I’m remembering correctly.

Edit: Forgot about Pearce. Would much rather have him DH and backup at 1B and OF. I think they’re hoping Jansen can secure the backup C role but you can almost guarantee they bring in a veteran to compete in camp.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19458 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:39 pm

This team stinks, blow it up.

AGENT ZERO · Post #19459 by **AGENT ZERO** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:10 pm

Lorenzo Cain and Curtis Granderson would round out this roster nicely. Trade Pillar for prospects, platoon Pearce and Granderson and let Hernandez and Alford battle for the RF job.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19460 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:31 pm

Doubt they get Cain. Doubt they do anything of consequence.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19461 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:23 pm

Alright, so, lets say they trade Bichette for Yelich and then acquire Cain in Free Agency, I think this team might be able to do damage?

Cain
Donaldson
Yelich
Smoak
Travis/Diaz
Tulowitzki/Solarte
Pillar
Martin/Janssen
Pearce/Morales

A possible Vlad call up in June to avoid super 2?

Might not be half bad, right? The outfield could go Pillar-Yelich-Cain or they could move around depending on who shows what at spring training.

Would people be comfortable with that? I still think tear it down if possible. I know Bichette for Yelich 1 for 1 is fair. But they ripped away the Lansing 3 from me when I was really looking forward to seeing what they could do on the field in Toronto, I don't want them to do the same with Borreuero

AGENT ZERO · Post #19462 by **AGENT ZERO** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:01 pm

I have no interest in moving Bichette, a premium bat in the middle infield is just about the most valuable asset in baseball.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19463 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:15 pm

At least it wouldn't be for a knuckleballer this time? Like I said, I'd probably not, but that lineup does offer some decent looks. Still overly right handed heavy. I'd really like Jarrod Dyson as the 4th outfielder.

stoney · Post #19464 by **stoney** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:29 pm

Even then, I doubt Miami goes for that 1 for 1.

I'd rather be the team with these young players (Bichette and Guerrero) that every team is clamouring for .

We haven't developed a home grown all star position player since....Vernon Wells?

Vector · Post #19465 by **Vector** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:37 pm

Hell, look at the roster. Of all the positions players Kevin Pillar is the only one to come up through the Blue Jays system.

AGENT ZERO · Post #19466 by **AGENT ZERO** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:38 pm

stoney wrote:Even then, I doubt Miami goes for that 1 for 1.

I'd rather be the team with these young players (Bichette and Guerrero) that every team is clamouring for .

We haven't developed a home grown all star position player since....Vernon Wells?

Alex Rios was probably the last one.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19467 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:38 pm

I'd rather sign Cain and Dyson, wait for Borruero, sign Donaldson to a 5/140 deal that's breaks down

20 (18)
20 (19)
33.3 (20) Martin is gone, Tulo comes down to 14M
33.3 (21) Tulo is gone with a 4M buyout
33.3 (22)

Doesn't hamstring us too bad. I'd prefer a four year deal, but it probably takes five to lock it down.

stoney · Post #19468 by **stoney** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:48 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
stoney wrote:Even then, I doubt Miami goes for that 1 for 1.

I'd rather be the team with these young players (Bichette and Guerrero) that every team is clamouring for .

We haven't developed a home grown all star position player since....Vernon Wells?

Alex Rios was probably the last one.

Right, that guy.

Still been 10 years.

AGENT ZERO · Post #19469 by **AGENT ZERO** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:51 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:I'd rather sign Cain and Dyson, wait for Borruero, sign Donaldson to a 5/140 deal that's breaks down

20 (18)
20 (19)
33.3 (20) Martin is gone, Tulo comes down to 14M
33.3 (21) Tulo is gone with a 4M buyout
33.3 (22)

Doesn't hamstring us too bad. I'd prefer a four year deal, but it probably takes five to lock it down.

That is my preference as well, though I could go either Granderson or Dyson.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19470 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:03 pm

What about the Donaldson deal? Does that sound fair?

AGENT ZERO · Post #19471 by **AGENT ZERO** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:11 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:What about the Donaldson deal? Does that sound fair?

I think the AAV is close, but I think it's going to take at least a 7 year term.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19472 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:11 pm

Then pass. No good comes out of giving him that.

AGENT ZERO · Post #19473 by **AGENT ZERO** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:18 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:Then pass. No good comes out of giving him that.

I read an analysis a while back that actually projected a 175M/7yr deal to be close to break even factoring in inflation and projected WAR. Obviously you would be banking on the first 3 years of the deal providing big surplus value which may or may not make sense given what you think the Jays time-line for contention is.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19474 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:35 pm

I think that once the farm is ready, it'll be year three of that deal. So the first two years he'd carry us. There's a train of thought out there that they think Vlad will be ready this year. At least that's what I heard on the radio. I'm not sure about that. Maybe? Seven is a lot to consider. Guys like Howard, Pujols, Cabrera signed mega deals after 32 and all have been troublesome. They have to tread very carefully.

I myself am most comfortable with four but five is doable for me as well if I was a GM. Anything beyond that is insane at this point. History just doesn't lie.

vf · Post #19475 by vf » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:16 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:Alright, so, lets say they trade Bichette for Yelich and then acquire Cain in Free Agency, I think this team might be able to do damage?

Cain
Donaldson
Yelich
Smoak
Travis/Diaz
Tulowitzki/Solarte
Pillar
Martin/Janssen
Pearce/Morales

A possible Vlad call up in June to avoid super 2?

Might not be half bad, right? The outfield could go Pillar-Yelich-Cain or they could move around depending on who shows what at spring training.

Would people be comfortable with that? I still think tear it down if possible. I know Bichette for Yelich 1 for 1 is fair. But they ripped away the Lansing 3 from me when I was really looking forward to seeing what they could do on the field in Toronto, I don't want them to do the same with Borreuero

Almost no interest in Yelich. Getting him he either plays in LF and kills his value or in CF and kills Pillars value.

Vector · Post #19476 by **Vector** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:37 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:I'd rather sign Cain and Dyson, wait for Borruero, sign Donaldson to a 5/140 deal that's breaks down

20 (18)
20 (19)
33.3 (20) Martin is gone, Tulo comes down to 14M
33.3 (21) Tulo is gone with a 4M buyout
33.3 (22)

Doesn't hamstring us too bad. I'd prefer a four year deal, but it probably takes five to lock it down.

This is my ideal too but AZ is right it’ll have to be a 7 year deal. That’s how big deals work now anyway. You accept that your contention window with him is the first three years and anything in the three us just a huge bonus.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19477 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:30 am

23M 1 year for Donaldson. Nice knowing ya

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19478 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:35 pm

2.7 for Sanchez. Carrera and Loup also settled.

PPJ · Post #19479 by **PPJ** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:59 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:23M 1 year for Donaldson. Nice knowing ya

Vector · Post #19480 by **Vector** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:33 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:2.7 for Sanchez. Carrera and Loup also settled.

Travis now too.

Vector · Post #19481 by **Vector** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:13 pm

Since 2012 the Blue Jays have lead the league in innings pitched by drafted and developed players by a whole bunch. It's not even that close.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19482 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:25 pm

Antho nailed pitchers.

AGENT ZERO · Post #19483 by **AGENT ZERO** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:33 pm

I'd rather be the Cubs and draft a shitload of position players and fill out the rotation through trade and FA. Pitching is too volatile and expensive to invest heavily into it in the minors and draft IMO.

Shawnathan Horcoff · Post #19484 by **Shawnathan Horcoff** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:37 pm

What does the list for the same time period prior to 2012 look like? :colbert:

MonkeyWrench · Post #19485 by **MonkeyWrench** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:48 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:I'd rather be the Cubs and draft a shitload of position players and fill out the rotation through trade and FA. Pitching is too volatile and expensive to invest heavily into it in the minors and draft IMO.

Pitchers are also volatile and expensive come trade time when you need to give up those young assets that were drafted and developed.
Free agency I understand because it's just money.

AGENT ZERO · Post #19486 by **AGENT ZERO** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:56 pm

MonkeyWrench wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:I'd rather be the Cubs and draft a shitload of position players and fill out the rotation through trade and FA. Pitching is too volatile and expensive to invest heavily into it in the minors and draft IMO.

Pitchers are also volatile and expensive come trade time when you need to give up those young assets that were drafted and developed.
Free agency I understand because it's just money.

Pitchers are always volatile, this is true, but they are even more volatile the further in proximity they are to the majors.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19487 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:28 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:I'd rather be the Cubs and draft a shitload of position players and fill out the rotation through trade and FA. Pitching is too volatile and expensive to invest heavily into it in the minors and draft IMO.

Except they've done a shit job at that too. Finding pitchers through trade and FA that is. Well, not a shit job, but not a great job.

AGENT ZERO · Post #19488 by **AGENT ZERO** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:15 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:I'd rather be the Cubs and draft a shitload of position players and fill out the rotation through trade and FA. Pitching is too volatile and expensive to invest heavily into it in the minors and draft IMO.

Except they've done a shit job at that too. Finding pitchers through trade and FA that is. Well, not a shit job, but not a great job.

Didn't they have the best team ERA when they won the WS in 2016?

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19489 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:19 pm

That one year. They were crap last year and who knows what this year will be.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19490 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:01 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Lorenzo Cain and Curtis Granderson would round out this roster nicely. Trade Pillar for prospects, platoon Pearce and Granderson and let Hernandez and Alford battle for the RF job.

1 year 5 for Granderson from us. His stats were terrible last year. Not quite sure why you or Shatkins wanted him.

MonkeyWrench · Post #19491 by **MonkeyWrench** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:29 pm

Cuz grandy man can.

AGENT ZERO · Post #19492 by **AGENT ZERO** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:56 pm

I fucking love this front office

AGENT ZERO · Post #19493 by **AGENT ZERO** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:57 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Lorenzo Cain and Curtis Granderson would round out this roster nicely. Trade Pillar for prospects, platoon Pearce and Granderson and let Hernandez and Alford battle for the RF job.

1 year 5 for Granderson from us. His stats were terrible last year. Not quite sure why you or Shatkins wanted him.

2.1 WAR is not terrible...

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19494 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:01 pm

He was 1.4 and a negative defensive player. They have been doing these little things that don't inspire much. I don't hate the Granderson signing, but so far it's reclamation project, fossil, middling utility player.

Vector · Post #19495 by **Vector** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:04 am

AGENT ZERO wrote:I fucking love this front office

Really? Because they signed Morales and he’s been absolutely terrible. The same front office sank the teams chances by relying on Barney and Goins to be the back-ups instead of anyone else who can hit. I, generally, like the front office but they haven’t done anything that’s wowed me.

I do like this signing. Would love to have Cain as well. To me, for this roster to work, they need to get rid of Morales and us the DH spot as a rotation to rest everyone and play Pearce when everyone is needed for a big game.

Vector · Post #19496 by **Vector** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:05 am

Balki Bartokomous wrote:He was 1.4 and a negative defensive player. They have been doing these little things that don't inspire much. I don't hate the Granderson signing, but so far it's reclamation project, fossil, middling utility player.

He was quite good for the Mets last year but, like Upton here, was terrible after getting traded. Granderson has been positive defensive player in right field too.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19497 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:09 am

To me they don't inspire any confidence.

AGENT ZERO · Post #19498 by **AGENT ZERO** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:23 am

Vector wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:I fucking love this front office

Really? Because they signed Morales and he’s been absolutely terrible. The same front office sank the teams chances by relying on Barney and Goins to be the back-ups instead of anyone else who can hit. I, generally, like the front office but they haven’t done anything that’s wowed me.

I do like this signing. Would love to have Cain as well. To me, for this roster to work, they need to get rid of Morales and us the DH spot as a rotation to rest everyone and play Pearce when everyone is needed for a big game.

Morales was bad in hindsight, but at the time it seemed like an adequate replacement for EE for 11M. I disliked the lack of depth in the middle inf, but they have since rectified that issue.

The thing I like most about this front office is that there is a clear direction, and they are not going to blow their load on short sighted deals or move quality young players for a quick fix. It's not sexy, but long term I am confident that the Jays will be better for it, and reasonably competitive in the short term too.

Balki Bartokomous · Post #19499 by **Balki Bartokomous** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:54 am

There's no clear direction. They say they want to get younger and more athletic and they go ahead and sign 36 year old Curtis Granderson. They're stuck between wanting to compete this year and their real preference, trade everything for prospects. That's why you like them so much. This year they're the virtuoso patience masters, last year they issue an ultimatum to a franchise icon. Fuck them.

AGENT ZERO · Post #19500 by **AGENT ZERO** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:57 am

You get younger and more athletic through the draft and trades not FA.

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