Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3951 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:00 pm

Super ugly by the Raptors
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3952 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:18 pm



hahahaha
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3953 by LeafOfBread » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:35 pm

Dogshit game. Of course DeMar gets his first career triple double.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3954 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:57 pm

If it was the playoffs, different story.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3955 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:05 pm

W
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3956 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:24 pm

This team needs another star to really take the next step. Hopefully the Beal rumor has legs and they can make it work without Siakam. Marc Gasol and Kevin Love would also make alot of sense.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3957 by vf » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:00 pm

I know you'll be shocked by this, but I don't want any of them. Landing Beal would require one of Miles, Norm or Danny Green plus JV or Serge or all 3 of the wings just to make salary work plus they purportedly want 2 1sts. So let's say 2020 1st, 2021 1st and the 3 wings and OG. That's too much for the club to absorb imo. Upgrading Green would be great but goddamn that'd leave the club some damn thin. Beal is great but the COA for the current construction of the club and an already existing trend of dealing away picks is leaving the club without many rookie contracts in the future.(Siakam for next year and OG the year after).

I don't know that raiding the picks cupboard for Gasol or Love really makes a lot of sense. The Raps can't move out JV and Serge(or highly doubtful) so one of them is going to be riding pine even more then now and the two of them haven't been a weakness on the club.

Personally I think Siakam is the 3rd star on the club and going all in on this season is damaging to the longterm health of the club. Imagine if Kawhi walks and the Raps have no 1sts for 4 seasons in a row(18/19/20/21) A bigger wing picked up from the buyouts is all the club should be doing unless they can get a ridiculously good deal for someone.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3958 by paulster » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:11 pm

Isn’t it kind of stupid how you need a totally stacked team to win an NBA Championship?
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3959 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:38 pm

vf wrote:I know you'll be shocked by this, but I don't want any of them. Landing Beal would require one of Miles, Norm or Danny Green plus JV or Serge or all 3 of the wings just to make salary work plus they purportedly want 2 1sts. So let's say 2020 1st, 2021 1st and the 3 wings and OG. That's too much for the club to absorb imo. Upgrading Green would be great but goddamn that'd leave the club some damn thin. Beal is great but the COA for the current construction of the club and an already existing trend of dealing away picks is leaving the club without many rookie contracts in the future.(Siakam for next year and OG the year after).

I don't know that raiding the picks cupboard for Gasol or Love really makes a lot of sense. The Raps can't move out JV and Serge(or highly doubtful) so one of them is going to be riding pine even more then now and the two of them haven't been a weakness on the club.

Personally I think Siakam is the 3rd star on the club and going all in on this season is damaging to the longterm health of the club. Imagine if Kawhi walks and the Raps have no 1sts for 4 seasons in a row(18/19/20/21) A bigger wing picked up from the buyouts is all the club should be doing unless they can get a ridiculously good deal for someone.


I doubt the Wizards would want Green in any trade, but even if they did Beal is better. The only players that would be off limits for me are Lowry, Kawhi and Siakam. Beal gives the Raptors an opportunity to win a title, which means a hell of alot more to me than the next few years of this franchise which figure to be awful post Kawhi regardless.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3960 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:44 pm

vf wrote:I know you'll be shocked by this, but I don't want any of them. Landing Beal would require one of Miles, Norm or Danny Green plus JV or Serge or all 3 of the wings just to make salary work plus they purportedly want 2 1sts. So let's say 2020 1st, 2021 1st and the 3 wings and OG. That's too much for the club to absorb imo. Upgrading Green would be great but goddamn that'd leave the club some damn thin. Beal is great but the COA for the current construction of the club and an already existing trend of dealing away picks is leaving the club without many rookie contracts in the future.(Siakam for next year and OG the year after).

I don't know that raiding the picks cupboard for Gasol or Love really makes a lot of sense. The Raps can't move out JV and Serge(or highly doubtful) so one of them is going to be riding pine even more then now and the two of them haven't been a weakness on the club.

Personally I think Siakam is the 3rd star on the club and going all in on this season is damaging to the longterm health of the club. Imagine if Kawhi walks and the Raps have no 1sts for 4 seasons in a row(18/19/20/21) A bigger wing picked up from the buyouts is all the club should be doing unless they can get a ridiculously good deal for someone.


We will never see eye to eye on this. You view dumping futures as a failure whereas I view not going all in with the best team in franchise history as a failure. Maybe if this team had a legitimate opportunity to contend post Lowry and Kawhi, but they don't. Whether the Raps move futures or not the next 5 years are going to be tough. The only way I see of avoiding that is making a serious run at a title and convincing Kawhi to stay. Right now I don't see that as terribly likely, add Beal and I think the Raps have a real shot to beat GS and BOS/MIL.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3961 by vf » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:55 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:I know you'll be shocked by this, but I don't want any of them. Landing Beal would require one of Miles, Norm or Danny Green plus JV or Serge or all 3 of the wings just to make salary work plus they purportedly want 2 1sts. So let's say 2020 1st, 2021 1st and the 3 wings and OG. That's too much for the club to absorb imo. Upgrading Green would be great but goddamn that'd leave the club some damn thin. Beal is great but the COA for the current construction of the club and an already existing trend of dealing away picks is leaving the club without many rookie contracts in the future.(Siakam for next year and OG the year after).

I don't know that raiding the picks cupboard for Gasol or Love really makes a lot of sense. The Raps can't move out JV and Serge(or highly doubtful) so one of them is going to be riding pine even more then now and the two of them haven't been a weakness on the club.

Personally I think Siakam is the 3rd star on the club and going all in on this season is damaging to the longterm health of the club. Imagine if Kawhi walks and the Raps have no 1sts for 4 seasons in a row(18/19/20/21) A bigger wing picked up from the buyouts is all the club should be doing unless they can get a ridiculously good deal for someone.


I doubt the Wizards would want Green in any trade, but even if they did Beal is better. The only players that would be off limits for me are Lowry, Kawhi and Siakam. Beal gives the Raptors an opportunity to win a title, which means a hell of alot more to me than the next few years of this franchise which figure to be awful post Kawhi regardless.


Beal is totally better then Green. I did say that those guys were required for salary matching. Beal makes 25M. And yeah, Raps post Kawhi and Kyle is very likely shit. Which is why I don't want the club giving up future 1sts.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3962 by vf » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:57 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:I know you'll be shocked by this, but I don't want any of them. Landing Beal would require one of Miles, Norm or Danny Green plus JV or Serge or all 3 of the wings just to make salary work plus they purportedly want 2 1sts. So let's say 2020 1st, 2021 1st and the 3 wings and OG. That's too much for the club to absorb imo. Upgrading Green would be great but goddamn that'd leave the club some damn thin. Beal is great but the COA for the current construction of the club and an already existing trend of dealing away picks is leaving the club without many rookie contracts in the future.(Siakam for next year and OG the year after).

I don't know that raiding the picks cupboard for Gasol or Love really makes a lot of sense. The Raps can't move out JV and Serge(or highly doubtful) so one of them is going to be riding pine even more then now and the two of them haven't been a weakness on the club.

Personally I think Siakam is the 3rd star on the club and going all in on this season is damaging to the longterm health of the club. Imagine if Kawhi walks and the Raps have no 1sts for 4 seasons in a row(18/19/20/21) A bigger wing picked up from the buyouts is all the club should be doing unless they can get a ridiculously good deal for someone.


We will never see eye to eye on this. You view dumping futures as a failure whereas I view not going all in with the best team in franchise history as a failure. Maybe if this team had a legitimate opportunity to contend post Lowry and Kawhi, but they don't. Whether the Raps move futures or not the next 5 years are going to be tough. The only way I see of avoiding that is making a serious run at a title and convincing Kawhi to stay. Right now I don't see that as terribly likely, add Beal and I think the Raps have a real shot to beat GS and BOS/MIL.



Moving futures is cool if you're a perennial contender. The Raps future hangs with Kawhi. He leaves and the club has no 1sts for a couple of years? That'd make Anthopolous' moves look tame.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3963 by LeafOfBread » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:32 pm

What the fuck Norm? Okay then.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3964 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:33 pm

LOL, why is Milwaukee given all this love, and Boston? Both teams are not without flaws. Raptors at full capacity are better than both of those teams. Get outta here with this nonsense.

Beal would be great, but the price would be crazy and not worth it, especially if Kawhi walks.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3965 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:51 pm

Poor shooting is a serious flaw.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3966 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:54 pm

The majority of this year they've shot well. Shooting can abandon any of your darlings.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3967 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:54 pm

vf wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:
vf wrote:I know you'll be shocked by this, but I don't want any of them. Landing Beal would require one of Miles, Norm or Danny Green plus JV or Serge or all 3 of the wings just to make salary work plus they purportedly want 2 1sts. So let's say 2020 1st, 2021 1st and the 3 wings and OG. That's too much for the club to absorb imo. Upgrading Green would be great but goddamn that'd leave the club some damn thin. Beal is great but the COA for the current construction of the club and an already existing trend of dealing away picks is leaving the club without many rookie contracts in the future.(Siakam for next year and OG the year after).

I don't know that raiding the picks cupboard for Gasol or Love really makes a lot of sense. The Raps can't move out JV and Serge(or highly doubtful) so one of them is going to be riding pine even more then now and the two of them haven't been a weakness on the club.

Personally I think Siakam is the 3rd star on the club and going all in on this season is damaging to the longterm health of the club. Imagine if Kawhi walks and the Raps have no 1sts for 4 seasons in a row(18/19/20/21) A bigger wing picked up from the buyouts is all the club should be doing unless they can get a ridiculously good deal for someone.


We will never see eye to eye on this. You view dumping futures as a failure whereas I view not going all in with the best team in franchise history as a failure. Maybe if this team had a legitimate opportunity to contend post Lowry and Kawhi, but they don't. Whether the Raps move futures or not the next 5 years are going to be tough. The only way I see of avoiding that is making a serious run at a title and convincing Kawhi to stay. Right now I don't see that as terribly likely, add Beal and I think the Raps have a real shot to beat GS and BOS/MIL.



Moving futures is cool if you're a perennial contender. The Raps future hangs with Kawhi. He leaves and the club has no 1sts for a couple of years? That'd make Anthopolous' moves look tame.


Adding Beal or a third star is the Raptors best shot at retaining Kawhi and winning a championship. I think its a no brainer if it can be done without trading the aforementioned 3 players.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3968 by LeafOfBread » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:56 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Poor shooting is a serious flaw.

ninja edit huh? why did you erase saying that Boston is still the best team in the East
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3969 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:00 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Poor shooting is a serious flaw.

ninja edit huh? why did you erase saying that Boston is still the best team in the East


They could still put it together and maybe they go to the final. But it's wide open. I'll move for Beal if it's OG, Serge and picks.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3970 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:06 am

Kraapo 4 Kaapo wrote:The majority of this year they've shot well. Shooting can abandon any of your darlings.


This is false
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3971 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:14 am

LeafOfBread wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Poor shooting is a serious flaw.

ninja edit huh? why did you erase saying that Boston is still the best team in the East


It said most talented, but I think they are the best set up to come of the East playoffs right now too. I dont think the Raptors shoot the 3 ball consistently enough to beat them.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3972 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:13 pm

Lorenzo Brown was waived. Goodnight, sweet prince.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3973 by vf » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:58 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:Poor shooting is a serious flaw.


Are they really shooting so poorly? CJ Miles has drug team numbers down that are still only 0.2% worse from the 3pt line then Mil. As a team they have a higher shooting % in overall fg then BOS and higher ft% then either club as well. Raps are another 3andD guy away from basically matching Boston or Milwaukee for shooting.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3974 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:09 pm

vf wrote:
AGENT ZERO wrote:Poor shooting is a serious flaw.


Are they really shooting so poorly? CJ Miles has drug team numbers down that are still only 0.2% worse from the 3pt line then Mil. As a team they have a higher shooting % in overall fg then BOS and higher ft% then either club as well. Raps are another 3andD guy away from basically matching Boston or Milwaukee for shooting.


It is more than just the overall numbers, when the game is on the line this team goes ice cold outside of Kawhi and Pascal, and as much as I like Pascal I never want him to touch the ball late in a game unless it is in the paint. The Raptors need another player that can create his own shot consistently and force the opposition to at least think twice before doubling Kawhi. FTR, I don't really believe in Milwaukee that much in the playoffs either, I think they will run into similar problems. Boston still scares me the most because when the game is on the line you know Kyrie, Tatum and Hayward can make shots, and when these three teams play each other in the playoffs the games will be tight.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3975 by vf » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:46 pm

The team has also been riddled with injuries all season. A shot creator on the bench would be a huge boon though. And re:Hayward; he's fucked. He's not gonna be right for a long time.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3976 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:54 pm

vf wrote:The team has also been riddled with injuries all season. A shot creator on the bench would be a huge boon though. And re:Hayward; he's fucked. He's not gonna be right for a long time.


These issues have been present even when the Raptors are healthy. As for Boston, exclude Hayward and you still have Horford and Brown. The Raptors are a really good team, I am not denying that, but the best teams make shots late in games, and they still lack that outside of Kawhi, IMO.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3977 by vf » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:53 pm

Your opinion or are you going off of any stats at all?
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3978 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:49 pm

100% opinion
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3979 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:16 pm

Oh, well then. I guess that settles it.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3980 by vf » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:03 pm

AGENT ZERO wrote:100% opinion


Fair enough.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3981 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:55 pm

Get me 15 Kawhis.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3982 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:14 pm

Raps sign Pat McCaw for the rest of the season.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3983 by LeafOfBread » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:03 pm

Kraapo 4 Kaapo wrote:Raps sign Pat McCaw for the rest of the season.

Good move IMO, even if the dude is a bit of a mess
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3984 by vf » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:28 pm

LeafOfBread wrote:
Kraapo 4 Kaapo wrote:Raps sign Pat McCaw for the rest of the season.

Good move IMO, even if the dude is a bit of a mess


Hard to know. Maybe he just got tired of Draymond.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3985 by vf » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:30 pm

I think Lowry killed that boy.

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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3986 by vf » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:36 pm

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news ... v07r57ezqp

The rumour is the Wizards want Siakam, Anunoby, cap filler and 2x1sts for Beal.

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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3987 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:01 pm

Haha, I'll give you Anunoby, two firsts and Delon Wright.

That article is dumb though, why do the Raptors need a back up PG?
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3988 by Dr_Chimera » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:55 pm

The Raptors can now sweeten their offer for Beal with McCaw.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3989 by AGENT ZERO » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:05 am

Swap Siakam with Mccaw and Delon, and add one more piece coming back our way.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3990 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:53 pm

McCaw can't be dealt
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3991 by vf » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:54 pm

Raps fucked around too long and the refs are gonna kill them in OT.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3992 by vf » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:09 pm

Pretty surprised they pulled it out.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3993 by Dr_Chimera » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:06 pm

The problem I have with trading for Beal is that he's a starting shooting guard. The Raptors already have a good shooting guard who provides a lot of defensive value.

Although Danny Green is not as good as Beal, his value is quite underrated. Based on VORP he has been worth 1.3 this season, while Beal is 1.5.

The Raptors would be better off doing nothing. I wish they could somehow get Lou Williams, a sharpshooter comfortable coming off the bench.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3994 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:34 pm

I'd like to have Beal and then Green off the bench would be so sick.

Lowry-Beal-Leonard-Siakam-Serge
VanVleet-Green-Norm-?-Monroe

Deal is OG, JV and picks for Beal
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3995 by AGENT ZERO » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:57 pm

The main reason for acquiring Beal is to add an additional scorer off the dribble that can command attention when teams try to double and triple Kawhi. At one point in 2OT today 4 Wizards went to Kawhi. The Raptors need someone who can consistently make teams pay if they do that late in games.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3996 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:16 am

The cost of acquiring him would cripple the team, either at PF (if you move Siakam) or at C because Ibaka is a pumpkin waiting to happen. It would have to be OG, Delon and JV to get Beal, along with picks of course. Very difficult. I doubt that the Webster/Masai combo wants to do that. If we could maneuver to get Beal and Morris, or even better Beal and Ariza that would be great.

Could do Beal and Morris for OG, JV, Delon and CJ.

Lowry-Beal-Kawhi-Siakam-Serge
VanVleet-Green-Powell-Morris-Monroe

Beal is only hitting 35% from three. I thought Joe Harris would be a good fit, but they're not going to trade a guy they just signed.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3997 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:07 am

Trevor Ariza would be amazing for when the Raptors go small.

Lowry - Green - Ariza - Leonard - Siakam

Good luck switching on the perimeter with those 5...
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3998 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:22 am

There is no way they can add Beal and Ariza
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #3999 by AGENT ZERO » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:32 am

Kraapo 4 Kaapo wrote:There is no way they can add Beal and Ariza


Ergo why the above lineup didn't include both.
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Re: Zan Tabak to Kyle Lowry: The Toronto Raptors Thread

Post #4000 by Kraapo 4 Kaapo » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:35 am

Fair enough. I just woke up, missed that part,my bad.

I think Ariza is a good fit, probably wouldn't cost a ton either as an expiring contract.

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