2017-18 Pertinent Philadelphia Flyers News

[Rogers Pancreas]

The underlying questions is how many of the D prospects do you think are going to pan out, and which ones? Morin and Myers have a lot of potential value, but injury has gotten in the way this year. Sanheim ... is a test topic these days. But, one or two of these guys is moveable for an impact forward, in my opinion. Particularly, if you identify who will fail to meet potential.

The answers to those questions are 1) no one knows, and 2) no one knows. And until we start to find out the answers to those questions, Hextall needs to just sit and look pretty. Now, if you want to talk about moving Morin or Hagg, there's less inherent risk because the offensive upside with either of those two seems to be pretty limited. Sanheim and Myers are too big, skate two well, and have too much offensive upside for me to ever consider parting with, though. Especially when we only have Ghost and Provorov to fall back on right now.

I'm just curious. Do you consider Reinhart an "impact forward?" And if not, who on the market would you consider an "impact forward."

I'm ambivalent about Reinhart, haven't seen him play enough. As far as the "no one knows" part, I'm not sure that's a particularly good argument against a hypothetical trade. One of the reasons a trade is possible is precisely because "no one knows." If you know you have a stud D, you are probably not trading him. If you know you got a guy that isn't going to max out, then he loses value. That is the rub, it's a gamble. If you're right, you get a good return for an overvalued asset (Mike Richards). If you're wrong, you send Patrick Sharp to Chicago.

I don't disagree with any of that, but my position is exactly as it was before - the return on Sanheim or Myers at this point is not worth the upside they possess. Especially when you consider organizational depth across all three major positions (i.e. forward, defense, goaltending).

[chaosof99]

Due to being occupied with other things, I didn't pay too much attention to the stats until recently, but looking at our PK% recently had me aghast. I mean I like Lappy as a person, but if he still has a job by July 1st I'd eat my hat.

[chaosof99]

Apparently we've claimed Oduya off waivers, which seems... odd. Really no clue why we need that guy and it kind of pisses me off because it just makes Sanheim on the roster even more unlikely. Also we lost Mark Alt to Colorado.

[Hovercraft]

Apparently we've claimed Oduya off waivers, which seems... odd. Really no clue why we need that guy and it kind of pisses me off because it just makes Sanheim on the roster even more unlikely. Also we lost Mark Alt to Colorado.

You answered your own question, he's to replace Alt in the pressbox. Really wish Sanheim was up too though. Could be bad if Hak falls in love with Odyua

[chaosof99]

Apparently we've claimed Oduya off waivers, which seems... odd. Really no clue why we need that guy and it kind of pisses me off because it just makes Sanheim on the roster even more unlikely. Also we lost Mark Alt to Colorado.

You answered your own question, he's to replace Alt in the pressbox. Really wish Sanheim was up too though. Could be bad if Hak falls in love with Odyua

Okay, I guess I was unsure how early GMs are informed that a player they put on waivers has been claimed. I kind of always assumed that a waived player gets "registered" with the league offices as being waived, and all GMs are informed simultaneously after the waiver period is over if and by who the player was taken. Thus I thought Hexy claimed Oduya before he knew that Alt was gone (and I myself only saw Alt was taken after I saw Hexy picked up Oduya). I guess it is a peer-to-peer process and GMs call each other to make the claim and both call the league offices afterward.

[Hovercraft]

Lindblom down and Read up. I hope this is just for AHL playoff cutoff for Lindblom and that he's back up tomorrow or tonight.

And Chaos that's true, I guess they are simultaneous transactions but GMs must talk to each other about it.

[jester]

Lindblom down and Read up. I hope this is just for AHL playoff cutoff for Lindblom and that he's back up tomorrow or tonight.

And Chaos that's true, I guess they are simultaneous transactions but GMs must talk to each other about it.

It sounds like Lindblom is already back. Purely paper transaction.

[CantSeeColors]

Lindblom down and Read up. I hope this is just for AHL playoff cutoff for Lindblom and that he's back up tomorrow or tonight.

And Chaos that's true, I guess they are simultaneous transactions but GMs must talk to each other about it.

Even if they don't talk, Oduya is probably a better player than Alt and therefore justifies the claim.

[Rogers Pancreas]

Everyone has to check out the piece on TSN about the Flyers and Hoffman. Apparently, those clowns (Senators) asked for Sanheim and a first.

Were they fucking serious with that? And I mean that in all honesty. Were they serious, or were they just throwing it out there hoping Hextall would leave them alone, because there are other ways to do it that don't make you look fucking stupid.

[FlyHigh]

I don't think it's ever a bad idea to ask for ridiculous prices. I mean, to a normal person, if someone had offered you Adam Larsson for Hall in June 2016, you would have laughed them out of the room. But Shero was ballsy enough to make the offer and Chiarelli was dumb enough to take it. I'm sure Yzerman has made plenty of ludicrous offers over the years, but all you need is a couple "yes's".

Hoffman's under contract for a couple more years, so there's no real pressure on em, why not see if you can hit a home run?

[CantSeeColors]

Hoffman is also on possibly the most team-friendly contract in the league. That's worth a lot, particularly if you think the other team might not actually value the prospect that can't buy a shot in the NHL

[Rogers Pancreas]

I don't think it's ever a bad idea to ask for ridiculous prices. I mean, to a normal person, if someone had offered you Adam Larsson for Hall in June 2016, you would have laughed them out of the room. But Shero was ballsy enough to make the offer and Chiarelli was dumb enough to take it. I'm sure Yzerman has made plenty of ludicrous offers over the years, but all you need is a couple "yes's".

Hoffman's under contract for a couple more years, so there's no real pressure on em, why not see if you can hit a home run?

I'm not exactly sure how the dominos fell with the Devil/Edmonton trade, but I see your point. However, I also don't think you want to make a habit of insulting the intelligence of GMs around the league. Sure, there's always going to be a Millbury. But, that doesn't mean you treat everyone like they're Milbury.

[Hovercraft]

With what Tatar returned, I would ask for a lot of Hoffman if I were Dorion too.

[JLHockeyKnight]

[Konecny HypeTrain Captain]

[GoneFullHextall]

I just wish he wasn't wearing 6.
just doesn't look right.

[Rogers Pancreas]

I just wish he wasn't wearing 6.
just doesn't look right.

John Hanna 1968
Allan Stanley 1969
Wayne Hillman 1970-1973
Andre Dupont 1974-1980
Blake Wesley 1981
Fred Arthur 1982-1983
Thomas Eriksson 1984
Tim Young 1985
Joe Paterson 1985-1986
Jeff Chychrun 1987-1991
Greg Smyth 1988
Steve Smith 1988
Dan Kordic 1992-1994
Chris Therien 1995-2006
Randy Jones 2007-2009
Sean O'Donnell 2011
Andreas Lilja 2012-2013
Travis Sanheim 2018

I will say this much. Fifty-seven does look pretty natural on the guy.

[DeadPhish]

So 6 is for shitty defensemen huh?

[GoneFullHextall]

as I said. thanks for that list above Sanheim.
yikes.

[Rogers Pancreas]

I forgot to mention, Claude is one point away from tying Lindros for fifth on the Flyers' all-time list (points).

Here's hoping for a big game.

[jester]

A Win!

Nolan Patrick ... is going to be very, very good. If we get into the playoffs, he's a dark horse for a nice little breakout series performance, I think.

[chaosof99]

Raffl out for two weeks, which sucks.

[Rogers Pancreas]

If Giroux can find another four assists in his final four games of the season, he'll tie Recchi for third all-time on the Flyers single-season high (assist) list.

[chaosof99]

I am well aware that we are not going to win the cup this year, and after the debacle of a game yesterday today is as good as any to consider what this team is doing in the offseason. So far I see three spots unfilled for this team next year: a middle-six center, a bottom six winger, and a bottom pair defenseman. The last of these can probably simply filled from within by promoting Morin, though I would also love an upgrade over Hägg/Gudas/McDonald. Forward group could also add another piece so this team does not have to play Lehterä and Weise regularly.

Luckily the Flyers have $15.45 million in cap space, and this could become even more if the team should buy out Lehterä's last year of his contract. I could also see them trying to cash in Wayne Simmonds and trade him in a similar manner as they got rid of Schenn. I love Wayne but he had a pretty bad season, though I don't think too many people are really aware of this. Could be a good opportunity to move him.

The player I really want is, as previously stated, Michael Grabner, though he could command a bit of salary in the offseason. Considering he is already 30 I would definitely not want the team to give out a contract with more than 3 years on it. Another play I'd love to see the team go after is Athanasiou from Detroit, though he is an RFA and if Detroit wants to hold him they could do so easily as they have even more cap space than us, so this would require a trade. In any case I think this team would do good to pick up some more speed.

Considering the amount of cap space I also wonder if the Flyers are going to make am offer for Tavares. Of course that guy is an amazing player, but this team also needs to consider its future with Provorov and Sanheim requiring new contracts after next season. Could still be doable, but if Tavares moves everyone and their grandmother will be in on him.

What definitely needs to happen is an overhaul of the coaching. Even if Hakstol isn't kicked out, Lappy is certainly gone. Great character as a player, but our PK has been absolutely rotten under his watch. With the history of injuries among our goaltenders I wonder if a change in the goalie coach is also happening.

[Hovercraft]

Lappy has to go. Even my wife last night noticed how aggressive the Pens Pk was and how passive the a flyers PK was. Would love to see MacDonald, Lehtera, Weise, Manning all gone too, but we'll be lucky if 1 of them leaves.

[Rogers Pancreas]

If this team was still operating under Holmgren, chaos, with Snider overseeing hockey opps, I'd put money on the Flyers pursuing Tavares as they did with Weber. And that's with Patrick on this roster. Hextall, however, has proven he's on another wavelength entirely. What I expect to happen next season is for Patrick to take over Filppula's spot on the roster, and for Frost to take over Patrick's.

The Simmonds thing is something I find myself going back and forth on constantly. Ignore this season, because he's been battling injuries. He's a 30-year old, modern day power-forward with over 700 games played. He's also a perfect leader on a very young team that's only getting younger. So does Hextall just assume the risk of signing the next Backes/Lucic/Hartnell, because he has the cap space, and Hak' loves his character, or does Hextall shop him because he knows there are 30 other general managers around the league that'd love to have him on their roster? The latter seems a little more like Hextall to me, but you never know.

[Konecny HypeTrain Captain]

I think Hexy will feel out the Simmonds trade market if he gets a really good deal (couple of firsts or a good prospect+high pick) I think he takes the package. If the market isn't crazy just keep him another year and let him walk in FA, this team should make huge strides next season and it might be worth keeping him just for next season.

[Rogers Pancreas]

Serious question: Holtby's signed for two more years at 6.1 million (right about the same time Carter would be making his debut). The Capitals' Cap situation is some kind of fugly, and they're going to need to re-sign Carlson or risk losing him to FA. And it's not as if they have the organizational depth to immediately replace the man.

If you are Ron Hextall, would you consider swapping one of our goaltenders out with a pick figured in? Provided that pick isn't one of our firsts.

[vonbonds]

Serious question: Holtby's signed for two more years at 6.1 million (right about the same time Carter would be making his debut). The Capitals' Cap situation is some kind of fugly, and they're going to need to re-sign Carlson or risk losing him to FA. And it's not as if they have the organizational depth to immediately replace the man.

If you are Ron Hextall, would you consider swapping one of our goaltenders out with a pick figured in? Provided that pick isn't one of our firsts.

That would be a huge upgrade for your team and something that makes sense for both teams. Would they do it in division though?

[Rogers Pancreas]

Serious question: Holtby's signed for two more years at 6.1 million (right about the same time Carter would be making his debut). The Capitals' Cap situation is some kind of fugly, and they're going to need to re-sign Carlson or risk losing him to FA. And it's not as if they have the organizational depth to immediately replace the man.

If you are Ron Hextall, would you consider swapping one of our goaltenders out with a pick figured in? Provided that pick isn't one of our firsts.

That would be a huge upgrade for your team and something that makes sense for both teams. Would they do it in division though?

I don't know. I'm looking around the league, and the only other teams I see actually making a push for Holtby would be the Islanders and the Oilers. And Holtby has a limited NMC, so if he decides he doesn't want to move he has the ability to fuck things up for everyone.

[vonbonds]

Serious question: Holtby's signed for two more years at 6.1 million (right about the same time Carter would be making his debut). The Capitals' Cap situation is some kind of fugly, and they're going to need to re-sign Carlson or risk losing him to FA. And it's not as if they have the organizational depth to immediately replace the man.

If you are Ron Hextall, would you consider swapping one of our goaltenders out with a pick figured in? Provided that pick isn't one of our firsts.

That would be a huge upgrade for your team and something that makes sense for both teams. Would they do it in division though?

I don't know. I'm looking around the league, and the only other teams I see actually making a push for Holtby would be the Islanders and the Oilers. And Holtby has a limited NMC, so if he decides he doesn't want to move he has the ability to fuck things up for everyone.

Your team is up and coming while Washington missed their window. LI is meh and Edmonton has McDavid and a famous mall. I think he’d be cool with Philly.

[Hovercraft]

I don't think Washington would trade him to us, but I'd be all over it if they were.

[jester]

Serious question: Holtby's signed for two more years at 6.1 million (right about the same time Carter would be making his debut). The Capitals' Cap situation is some kind of fugly, and they're going to need to re-sign Carlson or risk losing him to FA. And it's not as if they have the organizational depth to immediately replace the man.

If you are Ron Hextall, would you consider swapping one of our goaltenders out with a pick figured in? Provided that pick isn't one of our firsts.

One important point: that's a pretty conservative estimate on Hart. I think they are planning on him playing in the AHL to start next year and seeing what happens (based on the Elliot/Neuvirth contracts). If he tears it up, he could be here next year, but more likely start date is 2019/20. So, it then becomes a short term v. long term decision. If you expect to put Hart between the pipes the following season, is it worth spending assets on Holtby for next year? I'd say probably not, as those assets will be what strengthens this team as it peaks.

[Rogers Pancreas]

No matter how it plays out, Hart's ELC expires in 2019-20 which is the same time as Holtby's deal. So if he (Hart) struggles, we still have a proven option at starter to help keep this team afloat. We wouldn't be pissing away another year with Elliott and Neuvirth. And I know that we still won't be uber-competitive next season. But Giroux, Provorov, Patrick, Konecny, Sanheim, Lindblom, Couturier... they all deserve better than this.

[Hovercraft]

No matter how it plays out, Hart's ELC expires in 2019-20 which is the same time as Holtby's deal. So if he (Hart) struggles, we still have a proven option at starter to help keep this team afloat. We wouldn't be pissing away another year with Elliott and Neuvirth. And I know that we still won't be uber-competitive next season. But Giroux, Provorov, Patrick, Konecny, Sanheim, Lindblom, Couturier... they all deserve better than this.

18-19
19-20
20-21

Hart's deal won't expire until after 20-21 season. His contract will slide this year since he's in junior still. Holtby is starting for the caps tonight, will be a big game in determining his future.

[jester]

No matter how it plays out, Hart's ELC expires in 2019-20 which is the same time as Holtby's deal. So if he (Hart) struggles, we still have a proven option at starter to help keep this team afloat. We wouldn't be pissing away another year with Elliott and Neuvirth. And I know that we still won't be uber-competitive next season. But Giroux, Provorov, Patrick, Konecny, Sanheim, Lindblom, Couturier... they all deserve better than this.

Everyone on that list--including Couturier--is very young. To the point that we aren't even talking about their primes (Couturier is there now) for another season or two. Patience is tough, but if you want to maximize their primes ... you shouldn't make deals that adversely impact those years in the short term. Now, that gets into a cost-benefit analysis. A guy like Holtby certainly makes the Flyers better next year (by a wide margin).

Does he make them a Cup contender? Probably not. Are you going to flip him the following year if Hart is ready? What if Hart shows up in camp and blows everyone away a la Carey Price up in Montreal? Now you got a 29 y/o goalie on your team that is used to owning the net ... and Hart is probably stuck in the AHL. Not the end of the world, but you could have had him in the NHL gaining experience and still had whatever assets you traded away.

Bottom line ... if the organization (and us) think Hart is the real deal in the not-too-distant-future, making that kind of a trade with a team that is not ready to compete for a Cup is a relatively dubious proposition. You're probably better off seeing if you can land another cheap vet on a 1-year deal, casting off Neuvirth or whatever, and seeing what happens next year. I'd add: I think spending money on shoring up the bottom 6 and making that a more effective group would likely do a great deal to help this team next year, too.

We're on the cusp of a team that is going to be very, very good for an extended window if the cards fall right here. It's those first round picks, etc. that filter into the lineup on cheap ELC deals that help keep that window wide open.

[FlyHigh]

Figure it's at least worth doing some due diligence to see what it'd take. I'm as psyched about Hart as anybody, but you have to figure that he spends a really good chunk of time in the AHL for next year at least and also, goaltenders are voodoo.

I found a top-10 prospects list from October 2015 for goalies:

1. Hellebuyck -- Became starter at 23, elite season at 24
2. Malcolm Subban -- Backup
3. Samsonov -- Russia I think still?
4. Eric Comrie -- ???
5. Matt Murray -- Couple of awesome PO runs, but very "meh" this past year
6. Saros -- great backup, unclear if starter
7. Ville Husso -- ???
8. Zach Fucale -- ???
9. Zane McIntyre -- ???
10. Jon Gillies -- ???

It's totally possible that Hart breaks the mold and is the next Price (and I really hope that proves to be the case), but I don't think they are many instances of guys coming in at 20-21 and immediately taking on big goaltender roles in the NHL. So if WSH is dangling Holby, probably worth kicking the tires at least.

If WSH does go out this year, I wonder if they decide to completely blow it up. Core is already aging, they haven't been able to win, and do you really want to give Carlson 8x8?

[jester]

All true. There also aren't a lot of guys putting up outlier numbers like Hart (in a high scoring league). That's a big factor. It's all about bets.

The Athletic did a piece breaking down goalie arrival times, and they pegged '19/20 as a reasonable estimate.

[Rogers Pancreas]

No matter how it plays out, Hart's ELC expires in 2019-20 which is the same time as Holtby's deal. So if he (Hart) struggles, we still have a proven option at starter to help keep this team afloat. We wouldn't be pissing away another year with Elliott and Neuvirth. And I know that we still won't be uber-competitive next season. But Giroux, Provorov, Patrick, Konecny, Sanheim, Lindblom, Couturier... they all deserve better than this.

Everyone on that list--including Couturier--is very young. To the point that we aren't even talking about their primes (Couturier is there now) for another season or two. Patience is tough, but if you want to maximize their primes ... you shouldn't make deals that adversely impact those years in the short term. Now, that gets into a cost-benefit analysis. A guy like Holtby certainly makes the Flyers better next year (by a wide margin).

Does he make them a Cup contender? Probably not. Are you going to flip him the following year if Hart is ready? What if Hart shows up in camp and blows everyone away a la Carey Price up in Montreal? Now you got a 29 y/o goalie on your team that is used to owning the net ... and Hart is probably stuck in the AHL. Not the end of the world, but you could have had him in the NHL gaining experience and still had whatever assets you traded away.

Bottom line ... if the organization (and us) think Hart is the real deal in the not-too-distant-future, making that kind of a trade with a team that is not ready to compete for a Cup is a relatively dubious proposition. You're probably better off seeing if you can land another cheap vet on a 1-year deal, casting off Neuvirth or whatever, and seeing what happens next year. I'd add: I think spending money on shoring up the bottom 6 and making that a more effective group would likely do a great deal to help this team next year, too.

We're on the cusp of a team that is going to be very, very good for an extended window if the cards fall right here. It's those first round picks, etc. that filter into the lineup on cheap ELC deals that help keep that window wide open.

And just to be clear, I'm not advocating trading either of our firsts for Holtby. If that's the ask, I pray Hextall moves on. But if it they're asking for any one of our picks beyond that, I think it's worth considering if for no other reason than to keep the prospects competitive.

[Konecny HypeTrain Captain]

I'm fully committed to the Carter Hart hype train, next Patrick Roy in my book. If anything I'm under rating him.

[chaosof99]

Simmer was apparently nominted for the "Mark Messier Leadership award", which is odd considering what a rather bad season he had.

[Hovercraft]

That award has nothing to do with on ice production though.

Simmonds was playing through a pulled groin and had a pin in his hand most of the season apparently.

[chaosof99]

Welp, Simmer's laundry list of injuries is not good. Probably should have gone and rehabbed this stuff at some point.
Also Provorov was playing through a separated shoulder, said by the end of the 2nd period of game 6 he was unable to feel his arm. Yikes.
Hockey is a stupid sport.

[CantSeeColors]

I'll never understand why guys don't get this stuff fixed when it occurs at the beginning of the season.

[Hovercraft]

Entering training camp with a torn ligament is an awful decision. Much different than putting off surgery at the end of the season during a run for the playoffs. Not sure how McCrossin and the coaches let Simmonds do that.

[jester]

I suspect that decision was entirely on Simmonds.

[Rogers Pancreas]

I never realized how well Giroux stacked up against Forsberg and Lindros (and with time still on the clock).

Top-10 Goals
Giroux: 0
Forsberg: 0
Lindros: 4 (6th, 6th, 7th, 9th)

Top-10 Assists
Giroux: 6 (1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 9th)
Forsberg: 7 (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 9th, 10th)
Lindros: 3 (4th, 6th, 9th)

Top-10 Points
Giroux: 4 (2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 10th)
Forsberg: 5 (1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th)
Lindros: 3 (1st, 6th, 7th)

I also never realized how overstated the gap was between Forsberg's post-season performance and Lindros'. Right up until the age of 23, the two were in lockstep; Lindros had a Stanley Cup Final appearance, and led the league in post-season scoring. Forsberg had a Stanley Cup Final appearance, and a ring. Lindros had the better PPG production, though, between the two with almost the exact same number of games played (43 to 42). It's not until after the age of 23 (I had to take a moment, and pour myself a drink), it's not until after the age of 23 that the two paths diverged, with Lindros playing in a grand-total of 10 playoff games...

[Konecny HypeTrain Captain]

Forsberg will probably be my favorite hockey player until I die or Carter Hart wins 13 of the next 17 cups. The second option is very likely

[Rogers Pancreas]

Obligatory Flyers update:

A career-best offensive season for Flyers' top-line center Sean Couturier helped him earn a first-time finalist spot for the Selke Trophy, awarded to the player selected as the NHL's top defensive forward. He was up against Boston Bruins center Patrice Bergeron and LA Kings center Anze Kopitar; both previous winners of the Award.

Couturier finished 2nd in the balloting with 976 points including 37 first-place votes, 47 for second place and 37 for third. Kopitar won the award for the second time, receiving 1,152 points. Bergeron placed third with 817 points. Flyers captain Claude Giroux placed tied for 16th on the strength of one third-place vote. Last year, Couturier placed 47th in the balloting with two points (a pair of 5th-place votes).

A Hart Trophy finalist (3rd place in the ballot) in 2013-14, Flyers captain Claude Giroux placed 4th the in the voting this season for the National Hockey League's most valuable player. He received 546 points, including 10 first-place votes, 10 second place votes and 44 third-place votes. First-time winner Taylor Hall received 1,264 points, while top runner-up Nathan MacKinnon received 1,194 and third-place finisher Anze Kopitar narrowly edge out Giroux with 551 points.

Giroux also finished ninth in the balloting for the Lady Byng Trophy (NHL's most gentlemanly player) with 123 points including six for first-place. Vegas Golden Knights sniper William Karlsson was this year's winner.

Following the National Hockey League's Award Show in Las Vegas, the NHL announced that Flyers captain Claude Giroux has been named to the NHL Second All-Star Team.

It is the first time in his career that Giroux has received the honor and first Flyer to be named to a postseason All-Star Team since Shayne Gostisbehere was named to the All-Rookie Team after the 2015-16 season.

Giroux is also the first Flyer to be named to a First or Second postseason All-Star Team since Jakub Voracek was named First All-Star Team at Right Wing for the 2014-15 season.

Yawn.

[Hovercraft]

Too bad Couts didn't win. Glad Giroux was at least 4th for Hart after.